[Advaita-l] svapna karma - real phala ??

[V Subrahmanian]

On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hare Krishna Shri Bhaskar Prabhu ji
>
> Does one have independent control over what we are going to dream,
> can we plan a dream
> Do dream continue from were it left last time you slept (like in case of
> waking state)
>
>
> But as far as karma phala is concerned, I don't think that dream karma can
> give us fruits in waking, keeping aside mystical phenomenon. Dream is more
> of a bhoga than karma.


This is correctly said, Sri Sujal.  In the Br.up. there is a section that
deals with the status of the jiva in dream state.  In 4.3.15 the upanishad
says: sa yat tatra kinchit pashyan ananvAgataH tena bhavati asango hyayam
puruShaH...[He, the jiva, having seen whatever in the dream does not become
tainted by that.  He, the jiva is unattached/untainted.]  While writing an
elaborate bhashyam for this Sri Shankaracharya says: dRuShTvaiva na kRtvA
ityavochAma. [We have said that 'having *seen* alone' and *not 'having done
anything*'.] puNyam cha puNyaphalam, pApam cha pApaphalam. [the merits and
their fruits and demerits and their fruits.]  na tu puNyapApayoH
sAkShAddarshanam asti ityavochAma [We have said that there is no actual
seeing of the puNya and pApa].  tasmAt na puNya-pApAbhyAm au baddhaH
[therefore the jiva does not become bound/tainted by puNya / pApa in
dream]  yo hi karoti puNyapApe sa tAbhyAm anu badhyate. [he who performs
meritorious or evil deeds does become bound by those acts.]  na hi
darshanamAtreNa tadanubaddhaH syAt [never indeed would one become bound by
mere perceiving/witnessing puNya-pApa].

Thus, we have the UpaniShad and the Bhashya confirming that there is only a
mere seeing/perceiving of punya-pApa acts in a dream but no real performing
them by the jiva.  Therefore by mere seeing them happen there one will not
become bound by them.  The logic is: only when one does an act will it bind
him but when one merely sees them happen he does not become bound.

Again in the same bhashya we find: .....tasmAt svapne kurvanniva
upalabhyate, na tu kriyA asti paramArthataH.  uteva strIbhiH saha modamAna
iti shloka uktaH. AkhyAtarashcha svapnasya saha ivashabdena AchakShate
hastino'dya ghaTIkRtA dhAvanti iva mayA dRShTA iti. ato na tasya
kartRtvamasti.

quote
[from p.451 of Sw.Madhavananda's translation of the bhashyam:  If he
actually did anything in dream, he would be bound by it; and it would
pursue him even after he woke up.  But it is not known in everyday life
that he is pursued by deeds done in dreams.  Nobody considers himself a
sinner on account of sins committed in dream; nor do people who have heard
of them condemn or shun him.  Therefore he is certainly untouched by them.
Hence he only appears to be doing things in dream, but actually there is no
activity.  The pithy verse has already been quoted: 'He seems to be
enjoying himself in the company of women' (Br.up. 4.3.13).  And those who
describe their dream experiences use the words 'as if' in this connection,
as, for instance, 'I saw today as if a herd of elephants was running.'.
Therefore the self has no activity, kartRtvam (in dream).]
unquote

The other things you have said about dream events indicative of events of
the waking is covered by Shankara in the BSB 2nd ch. sUchakashcha...

warm regards
subrahmanian.v





>
> Sujal
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
>
> > praNAms
> > Hare krishna
> >
> > After reading dream tiger's real effect in waking, I am getting a new
> > doubt, whether karma done in the svapna (for example abusing some one or
> > hitting some one or giving something in charity  etc.) would give the
> > 'phala' in the form of pApa and puNya in waking??  Or do the karma-s done
> > in svapna attract the corresponding 'phala' in waking?? I know am
> > stretching this example and this analogy should not be used  for some
> > other purpose but just curious if at all there is a possibility :-))
> >
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
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