[Advaita-l] svapna karma - real phala ??

[Sujal Upadhyay]

Thank you Sri Subrahmanian ji. This is much helpful.

Hari OM



OM



On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 12:13 AM, V Subrahmanian
<v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hare Krishna Shri Bhaskar Prabhu ji
> >
> > Does one have independent control over what we are going to dream,
> > can we plan a dream
> > Do dream continue from were it left last time you slept (like in case of
> > waking state)
> >
> >
> > But as far as karma phala is concerned, I don't think that dream karma
> can
> > give us fruits in waking, keeping aside mystical phenomenon. Dream is
> more
> > of a bhoga than karma.
>
>
> This is correctly said, Sri Sujal.  In the Br.up. there is a section that
> deals with the status of the jiva in dream state.  In 4.3.15 the upanishad
> says: sa yat tatra kinchit pashyan ananvAgataH tena bhavati asango hyayam
> puruShaH...[He, the jiva, having seen whatever in the dream does not become
> tainted by that.  He, the jiva is unattached/untainted.]  While writing an
> elaborate bhashyam for this Sri Shankaracharya says: dRuShTvaiva na kRtvA
> ityavochAma. [We have said that 'having *seen* alone' and *not 'having done
> anything*'.] puNyam cha puNyaphalam, pApam cha pApaphalam. [the merits and
> their fruits and demerits and their fruits.]  na tu puNyapApayoH
> sAkShAddarshanam asti ityavochAma [We have said that there is no actual
> seeing of the puNya and pApa].  tasmAt na puNya-pApAbhyAm au baddhaH
> [therefore the jiva does not become bound/tainted by puNya / pApa in
> dream]  yo hi karoti puNyapApe sa tAbhyAm anu badhyate. [he who performs
> meritorious or evil deeds does become bound by those acts.]  na hi
> darshanamAtreNa tadanubaddhaH syAt [never indeed would one become bound by
> mere perceiving/witnessing puNya-pApa].
>
> Thus, we have the UpaniShad and the Bhashya confirming that there is only a
> mere seeing/perceiving of punya-pApa acts in a dream but no real performing
> them by the jiva.  Therefore by mere seeing them happen there one will not
> become bound by them.  The logic is: only when one does an act will it bind
> him but when one merely sees them happen he does not become bound.
>
> Again in the same bhashya we find: .....tasmAt svapne kurvanniva
> upalabhyate, na tu kriyA asti paramArthataH.  uteva strIbhiH saha modamAna
> iti shloka uktaH. AkhyAtarashcha svapnasya saha ivashabdena AchakShate
> hastino'dya ghaTIkRtA dhAvanti iva mayA dRShTA iti. ato na tasya
> kartRtvamasti.
>
> quote
> [from p.451 of Sw.Madhavananda's translation of the bhashyam:  If he
> actually did anything in dream, he would be bound by it; and it would
> pursue him even after he woke up.  But it is not known in everyday life
> that he is pursued by deeds done in dreams.  Nobody considers himself a
> sinner on account of sins committed in dream; nor do people who have heard
> of them condemn or shun him.  Therefore he is certainly untouched by them.
> Hence he only appears to be doing things in dream, but actually there is no
> activity.  The pithy verse has already been quoted: 'He seems to be
> enjoying himself in the company of women' (Br.up. 4.3.13).  And those who
> describe their dream experiences use the words 'as if' in this connection,
> as, for instance, 'I saw today as if a herd of elephants was running.'.
> Therefore the self has no activity, kartRtvam (in dream).]
> unquote
>
> The other things you have said about dream events indicative of events of
> the waking is covered by Shankara in the BSB 2nd ch. sUchakashcha...
>
> warm regards
> subrahmanian.v
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Sujal
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > praNAms
> > > Hare krishna
> > >
> > > After reading dream tiger's real effect in waking, I am getting a new
> > > doubt, whether karma done in the svapna (for example abusing some one
> or
> > > hitting some one or giving something in charity  etc.) would give the
> > > 'phala' in the form of pApa and puNya in waking??  Or do the karma-s
> done
> > > in svapna attract the corresponding 'phala' in waking?? I know am
> > > stretching this example and this analogy should not be used  for some
> > > other purpose but just curious if at all there is a possibility :-))
> > >
> > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > > bhaskar
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