[Advaita-l] viShNu and caturbhuja viShNu

[Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l]

Pranams Subramaniam ji,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I think I have read this one from your
blog. But didnt copy pasted it since it's your own hard work I am a good
boy :)

Hari OM



On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 1:46 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

> You may also note the following details:
>
> Viṣṇu’s status as a created deity
>
>
>
> The Rgvedic mantra: *सोमः पवते* जनिता मतीनां जनिता दिवो जनिता पृथिव्या:।
> जनिताग्नेर्जनिता सूर्यस्य जनितेन्द्रस्य जनितोत विष्णोः 9.5
>
> has been commented upon by Sāyaṇācārya as Soma who is praised is the
> creator of the intellects, the heavens, the earth.  Also he is the
> originator of sūrya, indra and viṣṇu, the all-pervading.
>
> In the subsequent mantra we have:
>
> *ब्रह्मा देवानां*पदवीः कवीनामृषिर्विप्राणां महिषो मृगाणाम् . श्येनो
> गृध्राणाँस्वधितिर्वनानाँसोमः पवित्रमत्येति रेभन्  9.6
>
> In this mantra which continues from the fifth mantra, Sāyaṇācārya says:
> Soma, of the earlier mantra, is assuming the post of brahmā in a sacrifice.
> Alternatively, the commentator says: soma is the head, ‘king’, of all the
> deva-s such as indra, stated in the previous mantra.
>
> Thus, from a study of these two mantras/commentaries we conclude that
> according to Sāyaṇācārya, viṣṇu is a created deity.
>
> In the Taittiriyopaniṣad shanti mantra bhāṣya, Shankaracharya has said
> that viṣṇu is the abhimānidevatā, presiding deity, for the limb, leg.  Also,
> Shankara in that bhāṣya has said that vāyu is the one responsible for
> delivering the fruits of actions to all, thereby placing vāyu above viṣṇu.
>
> At the beginning of the bhashyam for the Prashnopanishat 2nd chapter,
> Shankara says;
>
> प्राणोऽत्ता प्रजापतिरित्युक्तम् । तस्य प्रजापतित्वमत्तृत्वं
> चास्मिञ्शरीरेऽवधारयितव्यमित्ययं प्रश्न आरभ्यते ।
>
> Prāṇa the consumer is stated to be the Prajāpati.  This, its being the
> prajāpati and the consumer, is being demonstrated in this body.
>
> In the 9th mantra of this Chapter we have:
>
>
> इन्द्रस्त्वं प्राण तेजसा रुद्रोऽसि परिरक्षिता ।
> त्वमन्तरिक्षे चरसि सूर्यस्त्वं ज्योतिषां पतिः ॥ ९ ॥
>
> 9     Indra thou art, O Prana, and Rudra, too, in prowess. Thou art the
> Protector. Thou movest in the sky; thou art the sun, the lord of lights.
>
> The bhāṣya says:
> किंच, इन्द्रः परमेश्वरः त्वं हे प्राण, तेजसा वीर्येण रुद्रोऽसि संहरन्जगत्
> । स्थितौ च परि समन्तात् रक्षिता पालयिता; परिरक्षिता त्वमेव जगतःसौम्येन
> रूपेण । त्वम् अन्तरिक्षे अजस्रं चरसि उदयास्तमयाभ्यां सूर्यःत्वमेव च
> सर्वेषां ज्योतिषां पतिः ॥
>
> Further, O Prana, you are Indra, the Supreme Lord.  By valour you are
> Rudra, engaged in destroying the world.  Again, during the time of the
> existence of the universe, you, in your  benign aspect, are the preserver
> (of the universe) on every side.  You move for ever in the sky by rising
> and setting.  You are the sun, the lord of all the luminaries.
>
> For the above highlighted portion, Anandagiri, the authoritative
> sub-commentator, says: विष्ण्वादिरूपेण इत्यrथः । ( You, through the form
> of Vishnu, etc.)
>
> Now, this upanishad itself stated that Prana is Prajapati., the Creator.
> And in this mantra we have Rdura, another form of prāṇa, being stated as
> the world-destroyer.  And Vishnu (the benign form, as opposed to the
> valorous form of Rudra) is the Protector of the world.  Since the Creator,
> Protector and Destroyer are all said to be the forms of Prana we see that
> Rudra, named in the mantra itself, Vishnu not named in the mantra as well
> as the bhashya but named by Anandagiri, on the implication of the word
> 'vishnu' are all 'created' ones.
>
> The sequence is thus:  The PuruSha, Supreme Brahman, creates prāṇa, called
> Hiraṇyagarbha.  From this Hirānyagarbha, the creator of all the objects,
> names / forms, both sentient and insentient, the deva-s too are created.
> The mantra that we saw above lists these.  Indra, etc. including Rudra, for
> destruction function and Vishnu for protection function, are all
> manifestations of this Prana (Hiranyagarbha).  While up to this it is all
> within the realm of creation, the ONLY entity that transcends creation is
> the Puruṣa who is the subject matter of the Sixth Praṣna, the final chapter
> of this upaniṣad.
>
> The point to be noted is: This upaniṣad provides a very interesting
> instance of Rudra and Vishnu as particular functionaries, with allotted
> portfolios, along with Indra, etc.
>
>
>
> AppayyaDikṣita in his works on portraying Shiva as the Supreme has cited
> the above Rg. Vedic mantra as authority for the created nature of Viṣṇu and
> asked, if Rudra has birth, why not Viṣṇu?
>
>
>
> The sūtasamhitā, which is a part of the skandapurāṇa, too shows Viṣṇu as
> one of the deities who get instructions from the Supreme Shiva.
>
>
> It should also be kept in mind that in Advaita the saguna brahman is a
> superimposition on Nirguna Brahman.  And as such the saguna brahman derives
> its consciousness and power from Brahman and māyā.  In the absence of these
> two, the consciousness and power, saguṇa brahman is a non-entity.
>
>
> It follows from the above that whenever it is said that all the j'iva-s
> (including devatās like Shiva, Indra, Brahmā) are controlled by Viṣṇu as
> the antaryāmin, it is also to be kept in mind that Viṣṇu the antaryāmin too
> has Nirguṇa brahman as his antaryāmin chaitanya.  On the basis of the
> kenopanishad initial mantras, no entity in creation can act without the
> backing of the Pure consciousness.  So, if Viṣṇu were to be regarded as the
> antaryāmin of all else, then even Viṣṇu has / gets the power to do so only
> from Nirguna Brahman Pure Consciousness.  The name-formed Viṣṇu as the
> Parameshwara being a superimposition on Nirguna Brahman, it is essential
> that the Consciousness/power of Viṣṇu is derived from NB and māyā.
> Vaiṣṇavas might not like this explanation but Advaita has no problem in
> having it this way.
>
>
> regards
>
> subrahmanian.v
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Subramaniam ji,
>>
>> Yes. That is what I have understood too. The reason for saying viShNu as
>> a person in 11th Chapter is because our AcArya has faithfully explained
>> what arjuna had said.
>>
>> I went ahead quoting viShNu and bhAgavat purANa for understanding that
>> viShNu is not caturbhuja viShNu.
>>
>> Conclusions in brief
>>
>>
>>    1. Whenever any form of ISvara is described as 'that which is
>>    worshipped as AtmasvarUpa in heart', it is always nirguNa brahman.
>>    2. brahman is GYanasvarUpa and is nirguNa only, but is seen by 5
>>    senses as having guNa-s due to faulty vision.
>>    3. viShNu is not always carutbhUja viShNu. viShNu or nArAyana when
>>    described as substratum of entire universe as the sole creator, preserver
>>    and destroyer, and as the source of all avatAra-s then not catur-bhUja
>>    viShNu, the deity of preservation, but brahman.
>>    4. viShNu is sometimes taken as pradhAna prakruti meaning it is
>>    feminine form, SAkti of nirguNa brahman.
>>    5. viShNu or any form of ISvara is saguNa brahman and is the closest
>>    manifested form of brahman, and hence this all-powerful form 'viShNu' is
>>    worthy of worship
>>    6. When is it said, 'I am you *and* you are me', then it confirms
>>    non-duality. e.g. if viShNu bhagavAn says that I am Siva', but Siva never
>>    says that 'I am viShNu', then one can understand that Siva is a part of
>>    viShNu, but when viShNu says, 'I am you and you are me', then it confirms
>>    non-duality. In the same way, at one instance, viShNu says 'I am Siva,
>>    brahmA, etc' and at a separate instance, Siva says, 'I am viShNu, brahmA,
>>    etc', then this too confirms non-duality.
>>    7. 'I' or 'Me' in gItA can be taken as 'brahman'
>>
>> Thank you for the link. I was very buy these days and so skipped that
>> article. I will surely read it.
>>
>> OM
>>
>> Sujal
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 11:24 PM, V Subrahmanian <
>> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Shankara has not referred to 'Viṣṇu' and other names as the one with
>>> chaturbhuja, etc.  The only reference is in the BG 11th chapter end where
>>> Arjuna, unable to bear the fearsome viśwarūpa, wants Krishna to resume His
>>> benign chaturbhuja form and this is specific to the Krishna avatāra.
>>>
>>> A detailed analysis of the question as to whether Shankara identified or
>>> preferred any deity as saguṇa brahman, be it Viṣṇu or Śiva or any other, is
>>> available in an article I posted a few weeks ago:
>>>
>>> http://www.mediafire.com/view/z3kwt9h1kr87fem/Shankara_pref_deity.pdf
>>>
>>> regards
>>> subrahmanian.v
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> || Hari OM ||
>>>>
>>>> Pranams,
>>>>
>>>> Please read article viShNu and caturbhuja viShNu
>>>> <http://www.advaita-vedanta.in/vishnu>
>>>>
>>>> We can understand from the commentaries by Sri Adi SankarAcArya ji that
>>>> he
>>>> use to refer to kruShNa, nArAyaNa, viShNu, hari as brahman. Did our
>>>> AcArya
>>>> really meant caturbhuja viShNu or is it something different.
>>>>
>>>> OM
>>>>
>>>> Sujal
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>>
>