[Advaita-l] Madhvas custom of Sraddha is not correct

[V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l]

There is the yathAshakti nyAya in the case of such karmas.  Take for
instance this pitRpaksha.  There are people who do daily full fledged
shraaddham on all the fifteen days.  There are those who do tarpana on all
these days and perform shraaddham on one or two days depending on their
facility/capacity.  I know of a kerala iyer, a banker, who did nitya
shraaddham throughout the first year of his parents' demise.  There are
people who do the mAsika shraaddham in a full fledged way every month.

While it is laudable to do shraaddham with complete shraddhaa, the
capacity, physical and other, also have to be considered.  The women folk
who have problems related to age are not able to do the cooking.  When
cooks are engaged there are unique problems related to that even.  Often
they agree to come and at the last moment absent themselves.

There are houses in the city where people can come and do shraaddham by
paying them good charges.  Many are resorting to this facility these days.

Most people who officiate as pitru and vishvedeva are not at all qualified
even to the minimum with the veda.  It is required that these people are to
have some vedic exposure.  In my experience I have come across many retired
school teachers or other officials and even a police constable who
officiated on some occasions.  That way there is a lot of compromise.

Most brahmanas have become health conscious and refuse most servings and as
noted already leave the eatables as refuse on the leaf.

The system of svayampAka is age old and is a substitute for serving of
regular  cooked food.  One cannot compel people to always stick to the
norms.  In my opinion the annual shraaddham has to be performed in the
regular way and the paksha shraaddham and maasika can be done in the
compromised manner (hiranya rUpeNa).  If too much imposition is made,
people will lose even the little shraddhaa and give up for ever the
shraaddha ceremony.  Already some people adopt the wrong practice of doing
Gaya shraaddha once and give up shraadddha completely after that.

I came across an aged person who had to perform three shraaddhams every
year and became completely tired of that and took sannyasa.

Let us not blame people who, owing to various compulsions, compromise on
the shraaddha practice.  One does not know what is in store for oneself as
one grows old.

regards
subrahmanian.v

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 7:29 AM, R Krishnamoorthy via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Dear Sri Venkatesh Murthy
> What I have said is out of my  experience.I have been doing srardham for
> almost for the past 45 years.Ihave done them in
> Pune,Mumbai,Chennai,Dindigul,Madurai,Kotagiri,Mettupalayam and
> Coimbatore.What I find is for the past ten years this is the trend.If your
> experience is good be blessed.There are instances where the conducting
> purohit himself will represent a pithru/viswedeva and claim dakshina for
> both parts,One swallow does not make a summer.Iwill not say they are
> greedy.But they have also to measure up to the present levels of
> affluence-some are having cars too-and the result is what I have
> written.Dakshina is an important factor whether you accept it or not.Even
> if you conduct by way of Hiranya srardham they demand full dakshina is my
> experience.Of course we should give full respect for them and give them
> their dues.But capacity to do it varies from individual to individual. Your
> telling that the modern educated Brahmin spends so lavishly but cringes for
> srardham expenditure is not correct.Why you call them as animal is beyond
> my comprehension.For your information the NRIs among my relatives give good
> dakshina for all functions.Anyway there are deficiencies in
> bothsides.R.Krishnamoorthy,
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
>
>  *From:* Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> *Sent:* ‎September‎ ‎18‎, ‎2014 ‎8‎:‎47‎ ‎PM
> *To:* A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Advaita-l] Madhvas custom of Sraddha is not correct
>
> Namaste
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:35 PM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:45 PM, R Krishnamoorthy via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Sri Venkatesh Murthy
> > > Now a days it is difficult to get good brahmanas for srardham food.The
> > > sastrigal says it is difficult to get smartha Brahmins to represent the
> > > pithru and viswedeva.I used to tell my priest one month in advance.
> Also
> > > the Brahmins are now days aged and suffer from some ailments too.They
> are
> > > not able to eat well. They simply stuff the uneaten things in the leafy
> > > dhonnais-cups-and get up. Only they want dakshina. It is now
> 500/-rupees
> > > each .So from practical angle also it is proving difficult to perform
> > > srardham as designed by our Rishies.We are happy to do this but
> > > availability of persons conducting the srardham is becoming scarce.
> That
> > > may be a reason for Madhwas doing like this.R.Krishnamoorthy.
> > >
> >
> > This is well said.  Also, there is the practice of giving svayampAkam to
> > the brahmanas in case we are unable to serve them cooked food.  This
> > involves giving rice, raw banana, some vegetables, etc. optionally and
> > dakshina.
> >
> > It is sad to see Brahmin stereotyping statements  by well respected
> members in this list. Can you say ALL Brahmins in Sraddha are aged and are
> greedy for Dakshina. I have seen many Brahmins middle aged sitting in
> Sraddha and not expecting  high Dakshina. I have seen Brahmins in Sraddha
> getting not more than 200 rupees. I have seen many young Brahmin Purohitas
> performing Sraddha ceremony. What can you say to that? Kindly stop making
> general statements on Brahmins. Every Brahmin is different.
>
> It is only people like the above members try to justify why they cannot do
> Sraddha properly. I agree Sraddha is not easy and cheap ceremony. But it is
> not beyond the reach of a middle class Brahmin. The same people complaining
> of high Sraddha expenditure Maximum 10000 rupees yearly will not hesitate
> for a nano second to give lakhs of rupees yearly for the children's
> education in India and abroad. They proudly even say they paid lakhs to
> educate children in front of friends. The most dangerous animal is the
> Modern Educated Brahmin. He has licked the Britishers boots before
> Independence and now he is licking the foreigner's boots after
> Independence. The Britishers filled his mind with contempt for Brahmins and
> he is continuing it now.
>
> The giving Swampakam to Brahmins is for lazy and stingy people only. If you
> can afford to spend 10000 rupees Maximum annually and 2 - 3 hours time for
> your departed parents yearly why not do it? Cut your other expenditure like
> eating food in hotels.
>
>
>
> subrahmanian.v
> >
> > >
> > > Sent from Windows Mail
> > >
> > >  *From:* Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > > >
> > > *Sent:* ‎September‎ ‎17‎, ‎2014 ‎10‎:‎38‎ ‎PM
> > > *To:* A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Advaita-l] Madhvas custom of Sraddha is not correct
> > >
> > > Namaste
> > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:16 AM, Ajit Krishnan <
> ajit.krishnan at gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > namaste,
> > > >
> > > > Advaitins really aren't in a position to criticize these kinds of
> minor
> > > > things. In homas, we see advaitins invoke brahma in darbha as a
> matter
> > of
> > > > course. Often, the purohita recites both portions of the
> > punyahavachana.
> > > > The nandi shraddha, which involves a homa and several brahmanas is
> > hardly
> > > > being done that way.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I heard we have some freedom for doing Devata Karyas like Homa. We can
> > make
> > > adjustments and take short cuts. But there is not such liberty  for
> doing
> > > Pitru Karyas. You can do Chandi Homa on any day whenever you like. But
> > > Pitru's annual Sraddha must be done exactly on the death tithi date.
> You
> > > cannot do it earlier or later some time. Like this there are more
> > > restrictions for Pitru Karyas.
> > >
> > > Second point is the most important part of the Sraddha ritual is the
> > > Brahmana Bhojana. The Sraddha Karta will invite Pitrus in the body of
> > > Brahmana and ask them to eat and be pleased in Brahmana's body. If
> > > Brahmanas are well fed the Pitrus will be pleased. Which Brahmin are
> you
> > > pleasing if you keep Darbhe instead of Brahmana? After the Brahmanas
> have
> > > taken the food the remaining cooked food is the Pitru Sesha. The
> Sraddha
> > > Karta and his family will eat the Pitru Sesha and they be blessed by
> > Pitrus
> > > through this Pitru Sesha. How can you get blessings of Pitrus if you
> are
> > > not feeding any Brahmana?
> > >
> > >
> > > > The bigger problem is that few people make an attempt to understand
> the
> > > > significance behind what they are doing. Even fewer people do it with
> > > > bhakti and shraddha. And this problem spans all divisions.
> > > >
> > > > sasneham,
> > > >
> > > >     ajit
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:47 PM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> > > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Namaste
> > > >>
> > > >> I am seeing lot of Madhvas go to Maths for doing Paksha Sraddha. I
> > went
> > > to
> > > >> learn what they are doing. They are doing Group Sraddha like one
> > > Purohita
> > > >> is saying Mantras and instructions and all Kartas are doing at the
> > same
> > > >> time. This is not correct.
> > > >>
> > > >> The second mistake is they are doing only Chataka Sraddha with
> Darbhe
> > > >> Brahmanas but not Pratyaksha Brahmanas. They are using Darbhe
> instead
> > of
> > > >> real Brahmanas.
> > > >>
> > > >> I went to Sankara Math and asked the people there. They also said we
> > > >> should
> > > >> not do Chataka Sraddha when Brahmins are available. If there is
> acute
> > > >> shortage of Brahmanas to sit in Vishwe deva and Pitru Sthana we can
> > use
> > > >> Darbhe Brahmana.
> > > >>
> > > >> Other comments welcome.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Regards
> > > >>
> > > >> -Venkatesh
> > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > -Venkatesh
> > > _______________________________________________
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> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
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