[Advaita-l] Today Bhagavan Ramanuja Jayanti too
Keshava PRASAD Halemane
k_prasad_h at yahoo.co.in
Fri Apr 24 08:15:11 CDT 2015
namastE
Let me share here below my 'whatever thinking' on the problem of "locus-of-avidya" : IMHO: First, let me clarify one thing - by 'locus' i think we mean 'immediate-locus' and not 'ultimate-locus'; lest it may lead into infinite-regress that can be resolved only by basing it on an ultimate base/aadhaara = brahmavastu.
The (immediate)locus of 'avidya' must be the same as the locus of 'vidya' as a matter of standard-convention. In a strict sense there cannot be any other locus for 'avidya', since 'avidya' refers to the 'absence-of-vidya'; the 'absence' of anything can only be referred to the same locus wherever one expects/anticipates its 'presence'. Now the question is - what is that 'vidya' w.r.t which this 'avidya' is being referred to. If we take that 'objective-knowledge' (knowledge-of-objects-that-can-be-known-through-objectification) are refers to vRtti-jnaana (like 'ghaTaakaara-vRtti'), then its locus is in the antahkaraNa - which is therefore the locus for both the said 'vidya' and/or the 'avidya' thereof.
However, if the 'avidya' is referred to the absence of 'brahma-jnaana' which itself refers to 'absolute-knowledge' and not any objective-knowledge (knowledge-of-objects) then the next question is - does 'brahma-jnaana' exist/manifest in the 'antahkaraNa' !? Is it ('brahma-jnaana') only a 'vRtti-jnaana' even if one may call it to be 'akhanDaakaaravRtti' !? If the answer to that question is YES, to that extent the locus of 'avidya' must be the very same 'antahkaraNa'.
The 'antahkaraNa' being referred to here is associated with that one jIva the 'avidya' of which is under question/discussion here. In other words, the 'locus' of 'antahkaraNa' itself is the 'jIva' of which the 'antahkaraNa' is being talked about.
To complete the circle, shall we ask the question: what is the 'locus' of the 'jIva' or for that matter a/any 'jIva' ? = 'mUla-avidya' (shall we say) !?
It is 'mUla-avidya' that seemingly pervades the 'antahkaraNa' and hides-&-corrupts (shall we say) the 'jIva' from its rightful identity with brahma-vastu. Why, because (shall we say): no 'mUla-avidya' = no 'jIva'; only 'brahmavastu'.
So then, the locus of avidya as well as vidya is the antahkaraNa; the locus of the antahkaraNa is the jIva; the locus of the/a/any/all jIva is mUla-avidya; and finally, the locus of mUla-avidya is(must be) none other than that ultimate base, brahmavastu.
Hope that the above reasoning is equally acceptable to a seeker-jIva as well as a jIvanmukta-jIva and all others in between.
praNaamsKeshava Prasad Halemane
On Friday, 24 April 2015 4:07 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
Shree Venkatesh Murthyji -
As I understand - The vivarana school itself differs from Bhamati in this regard. Within Advaita tradition there is difference of opinion in terms of Locus of Avidya.
Sureswara says in Naishkarmya siddhi that it is Brahman is locus of avidya.
Now about Shankara bhagavat paada's position. Please study his bhashyam on the 13th ch - kshetrajnam ca api maa viddhi .. sloka where he argues that it is not even jiiva that is locus of avidya - it is only anthaH karana that is locus. Few months back I wrote an series of articles on this and posted to the list, if one is interested.
It is not that Ramanuja did not study advaitic position, there are varying positions in the advaita itself. It does not mean Ramanuja's criticism of avidya of Advaita is correct. I have discussed this elaborately in my Advanced Vedanta talks series which can be accessed at say,
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XQXj_n-G8&index=147&list=PLWjpkY4mU2RAlFcTU_5G2a1trhbcZUedZ>
Ramanuja has focused the issues for us to contemplate - that does not mean that one has to accept either Ramanuja's position or even Shankara's position, either vivarana's position or Bhamati's position, unless it is shruti, yukti and anubhava based.
Hope I am clear.
Hari Om!
Sadananda
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 4/24/15, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Today Bhagavan Ramanuja Jayanti too
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Friday, April 24, 2015, 12:53 AM
Namaste
In the Sri Bhashya Maha
Siddhanta portion on Ashraya of Avidya -
सा हि
किमाश्रित्य भ्रमं
जनयति ? न तावत्
जीवमाश्रित्य
अविद्यापरिकल्पितत्वात्
जीवभावस्य ।
Here Ramanuja is saying Jeeva cannot be the
Ashraya for Avidyaa
because Jeeva is
imagined by Avidyaa only. How can Avidyaa have a base
in him? Jeeva is imagined by Avidyaa and
Jeeva has that Avidyaa.
There is Anyonya
Ashraya Dosha.
Mandana
Mishra in Brahma Sidhhi has cleared Ramanuja's doubt.
यत्तु
कस्याविद्येति ?
जीवानामिति ब्रूमः । He has
given good explanation why
Jeeva is
Avidya's Ashraya. There is no Anyonya Ashraya Dosha at
all.
Adi Sankara also cleared this same
doubt in Prasthana Traya Bhashya.
Mandana Mishra and Adi Sankara both were
earlier than Ramanuja.
Question is - Why Ramanuja was not familiar
with Brahma Siddhi ? He
should have checked
all Purva Paksha Granthas before expressing
doubts.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 8:48 PM, kuntimaddi
sadananda via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
wrote:
> PraNAms to all
>
> Today is Bhagavan
Ramanuja Jayanti too.
>
> His Shree Bhashya on Bri Sutra has been
considered a brilliant analysis where he considers Advaita
doctrine in terms laghu and mahaa purvapaksha before his
siddhanta.
>
> The
emphasis on the Sharanaagati as means of moksha forms the
basis of the Vishishtadvaita darshana which was later
expanded by Shree Vedanta Deshika.
>
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 4/23/15, kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
[advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
>
> ON
Shakara:
>
> "
An exquisite thinker, a brilliant intellect, a
> personality scintillating with the
vision of Truth, a heart
> throbbing
with an ardent desire to serve the nation, sweetly
> emotional and relentlessly logical , in
Sankara the
> Upanishads discovered the
fittest spiritual general...... Be
> he
in the halls of the Upanishad commentaries or in the
> temple of the Brahma Sutra expositions,
in the amphitheatre
> of his Bhagvad
Gita discourses or in the open flowery fields
> of his devotional songs, his was a pen
that danced to the
> swing of his
thoughts "
>
>
Swami Chinmayananda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __._,_.___
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Posted
by: kuntimaddi sadananda
> <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
>
>
>
>
>
Reply
> via web post
> •
>
>
Reply to sender
>
•
>
>
Reply to group
>
•
>
Start a New
> Topic
> •
>
Messages in this
> topic
> (1)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Discussion
of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta
>
Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman.
(Members
> belong to vasudhaiva
kutumbam)
>
>
Advaitin Homepage at: http://www.advaitin.net/
>
> To Post a message
send an email to:
> advaitin at yahoogroups.com
>
> Messages Archived
at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advaitin/messages
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit Your Group
>
>
> New Members
> 1
>
> New Photos
> 2
>
>
>
>
>
>
> •
Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204 --
> #yiv8022171204ygrp-mkp {
> border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
>
0;padding:0 10px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-mkp hr
{
> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-mkp #yiv8022171204hd {
>
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
> 0;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-mkp
#yiv8022171204ads {
>
margin-bottom:10px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-mkp
.yiv8022171204ad {
> padding:0 0;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-mkp .yiv8022171204ad p {
> margin:0;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-mkp
.yiv8022171204ad a {
>
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
>
#yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-sponsor
> #yiv8022171204ygrp-lc {
> font-family:Arial;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-sponsor
>
#yiv8022171204ygrp-lc #yiv8022171204hd {
> margin:10px
>
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-sponsor
>
#yiv8022171204ygrp-lc .yiv8022171204ad {
> margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204actions {
>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204activity {
>
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204activity span {
>
font-weight:700;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204activity
span:first-child {
>
text-transform:uppercase;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204activity
span a {
>
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204activity
span span {
> color:#ff7900;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204activity span
>
.yiv8022171204underline {
>
text-decoration:underline;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 .yiv8022171204attach {
>
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
> 0;width:400px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 .yiv8022171204attach div
a {
> text-decoration:none;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
.yiv8022171204attach img {
>
border:none;padding-right:5px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 .yiv8022171204attach
label {
>
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 .yiv8022171204attach
label a {
> text-decoration:none;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
blockquote {
> margin:0 0 0 4px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
.yiv8022171204bold {
>
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
.yiv8022171204bold a {
>
text-decoration:none;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 dd.yiv8022171204last p a
{
>
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
dd.yiv8022171204last p span {
>
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
dd.yiv8022171204last p
>
span.yiv8022171204yshortcuts {
>
margin-right:0;}
>
>
#yiv8022171204 div.yiv8022171204attach-table div div a {
> text-decoration:none;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
div.yiv8022171204attach-table {
>
width:400px;}
>
>
#yiv8022171204 div.yiv8022171204file-title a,
#yiv8022171204
>
div.yiv8022171204file-title a:active, #yiv8022171204
> div.yiv8022171204file-title a:hover,
#yiv8022171204
>
div.yiv8022171204file-title a:visited {
> text-decoration:none;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
div.yiv8022171204photo-title a,
>
#yiv8022171204 div.yiv8022171204photo-title a:active,
> #yiv8022171204
div.yiv8022171204photo-title a:hover,
>
#yiv8022171204 div.yiv8022171204photo-title a:visited {
> text-decoration:none;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
div#yiv8022171204ygrp-mlmsg
>
#yiv8022171204ygrp-msg p a span.yiv8022171204yshortcuts {
>
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
.yiv8022171204green {
>
color:#628c2a;}
>
>
#yiv8022171204 .yiv8022171204MsoNormal {
> margin:0 0 0 0;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 o {
> font-size:0;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204photos div
{
> float:left;width:72px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204photos div div {
>
border:1px solid
>
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204photos div label {
>
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204reco-category {
>
font-size:77%;}
>
>
#yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204reco-desc {
> font-size:77%;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 .yiv8022171204replbq {
> margin:4px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-actbar
div a:first-child {
>
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-mlmsg
{
> font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,
helvetica, clean,
> sans-serif;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-mlmsg table {
>
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-mlmsg
select,
> #yiv8022171204 input,
#yiv8022171204 textarea {
> font:99%
Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv8022171204
> code {
> font:115%
monospace;}
>
>
#yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-mlmsg * {
> line-height:1.22em;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-mlmsg #yiv8022171204logo {
> padding-bottom:10px;}
>
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-msg p
a {
> font-family:Verdana;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-msg
>
p#yiv8022171204attach-count span {
>
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-reco
>
#yiv8022171204reco-head {
>
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-reco
{
> margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-sponsor #yiv8022171204ov
> li a {
>
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-sponsor #yiv8022171204ov
> li {
>
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-sponsor #yiv8022171204ov
> ul {
>
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-text
{
> font-family:Georgia;}
>
> #yiv8022171204
#yiv8022171204ygrp-text p {
> margin:0
0 1em 0;}
>
>
#yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-text tt {
> font-size:120%;}
>
> #yiv8022171204 #yiv8022171204ygrp-vital
ul li:last-child {
> border-right:none
!important;
> }
>
#yiv8022171204
>
>
_______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or
change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance,
contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
--
Regards
-Venkatesh
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
To unsubscribe or change your
options:
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
To unsubscribe or change your options:
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
More information about the Advaita-l mailing list