[Advaita-l] Weather vedas are considered as false in ultimate reality?

Venkatraghavan S agnimile at gmail.com
Thu Aug 6 10:00:01 CDT 2015

Perhaps this has been dealt with already in the discussions to date. The
context of this vAkya in brihadAraNyka is in describing the paramArtha
state of a brahma gyAni.

To such an AtmajnAni, he can never have kartrtvam, so he can never be a
kartA. As he is never a karta, he does not have karma. Therefore vaidika
karmAs don't exist for him (he may give the appearance of performance, but
that is only for loka sangraha, he is not a kartA even then). Therefore,
karmakANda doesn't exist for him.

Similarly, as an atmajnAni, he doesn't have pramAtrtvam, so he is never a
pramAtA.  pramANa has no existence for an apramAtA.  Veda, which is shabda
pramANa, therefore also doesn't have any existence for him.

Bhagavan Adi Shankara says this in his Gita BhAshyam on Sloka 2.18:
शास्त्रं तु अंत्यं प्रमाणम् अतद्धर्माध्यारोपण- मात्रनिवर्तकत्वेन
प्रमाणत्वम् आत्मनि प्रतिपद्यते न तु अज्ञातार्थज्ञापतक्वेन।
My translation - ShAstra is the last pramANa, its pramANatvam stemming from
its removal of the superimposed attributes of "not that" (anAtmA) on Atma,
not from the revelation of something that is not known.

The context of this is in reply to a pUrvapakshi who argues that Atma
cannot be the one described as apramEya as its nature is revealed by veda
pramANa. ShankarAcharya argues that Veda pramANa cannot reveal Atma, as
Atma is svatah siddha, self  evident. Veda pramANatvam is not because it
reveals a previously unknown Atma - its pramANatvam is only in removing
anAtma's attributes (kartrtvam, bhoktrtvam, pramAtrtvam etc) superimposed
on Atma.

Where this is relevant to us is as follows. The usage of the words "antya
pramANa" in the bhAshyam is to say that veda loses its pramANatvam once the
anAtma adhyAsa on Atma is removed. Atma does not have pramAtrtvam, and
without pramAtrtvam, there cannot be a pramANa. So once Atma's true nature
is realised, vedAs cease to serve any purpose for such a one.

VedAs therefore operate only in the sphere of vyavahArA, not paramArtha,
and that is what is the purport of the brihadAraNyaka vakya, (अत्र) वेदाः
अवेदा (भवन्ति).

On 31 Jul 2015 17:54, "Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l" <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste,
>                                            Weather in any upanishad or
> vedas ,they say vedas as "Aveda"?.
> What is the pramana to say that vedas are false in ultimate reality?
> For that one advaitha pandith gave me a vakhya "Vedaha Avedaha"...and he
> says that this vakhya is from veda only...which says vedas are false in
> ultimate reality.
> Weather this vakhya is really present in any veda (upanishad)?
> Can any learned scholar tell in which veda (Upanishad)..the vakhya "vedaha
> avedhaha"..is present...and also tell me the meaning of this verse ,if this
> vakhya really exists...
> regards,
> Harsha Bhat
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