[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: What is avidyA vR^itti as against antaHkaraNa vR^itti?

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

PraNAms

Just for some thought,  but not to confuse. 

There are several aspects involved - pramaa vs bhramaa, smRiti and perception, and whether smRiti comes under separate pramaana. Anandaji also brought in - the internal perceptions - such as emotions- anger, happiness, or certain moods of the mind. 

Looking from a rational point - The perception for the first time (I think V. Advaita - classifies as indeterminate - not sure about tarkikaas) there is no role  of smRiti. and no jaati also here. When a child sees a cow for the first time, a white cow, and mother says - my dear this is a cow- now the cognition of cow and knowledge of the cognition as cow, as supported by aapta vaakya follows - otherwise just cognition of an object without a name.  Here pramaa and pramaata are involved at antaHkarana level. From my point, all cognitions are attributive in the sense that senses can only gather (reflective) attributes of the object perceived since original attributes are inseparable from their locus - and vishaya - the cow remains fortunately outside!

The first cognition forms a memory sometimes being referred to as samskaara or vaasaana, hence part of kaaraNa shareera - this may be called as avidyaa vRitti.

When the child sees another cow which is black, and the mother says this is also cow, - cognition, recognition as well as instincts of jaati are coming into play. 

Hence even in perception for the second time on - smRiti is coming into picture in recognition part. Hence perception involves both cognition and recognition to some extent or memory is playing a role in the knowledge. Hence avidhyaa vRitti or vaasana samskaara coming in the recognition process and not a cognitive level.Hence we have both antaHkarana vRitti and avidyaa vRitti due to vaasanaas or samskaara or memory.  

In the sRiti alone without cognition - as someone remembering a cow - then there is no cognition but only internal perception - if we call this as perception.

Bhranti comes when the cognition is incomplete (since cognition is mostly attributive and attributives are incomplete due to absence of required secondary conditions such as light etc) and smRitti say snake while seeing a rope. 

smRiti is some have classified as antaHkarana vRitti while some others as avidya or kaarNa shareera vRitit. 

With jaati only the general attribute say cowness of the cow comes into picture - this happens only after second perhaps reinforced cognition-recognition cycle. 

Hari Om!
Sadananda
  


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On Mon, 7/27/15, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

 Subject: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [Advaita-l] What is avidyA vR^itti as against	antaHkaraNa	vR^itti?
 To: "Anand Hudli" <anandhudli at hotmail.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Monday, July 27, 2015, 11:32 PM
 
 Dear  Sri Anand Ji,
 
 Is not sopadika bhranti (
 सोपाधिक भ्रान्ति ) considered
 avidya vritti ,
 even though it can be
 classified as objective knowledge ? Please clarify.
 
 Regards and Pranams
 
 On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 11:10
 PM, Anand Hudli via Advaita-l <
 advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 
 > An attempt to
 answer some questions.
 > The difference
 between objective knowledge and subjective knowledge lies
 in
 > the capability of the former type of
 knowledge to be *directly*
 >
 (aparokSheNa) conveyed or used in dealings (vyavahAra) with
 people other
 > than the person who has
 this knowledge. For example, if you see a pot, you
 > may point it out to others, "this is
 a pot", and they too will have the
 >
 same direct perception of the pot. On the other hand, if you
 feel happy,
 > you cannot *directly*
 convey this feeling to me. There is no way for me to
 > *directly* feel what you are feeling. You
 may express your feeling with
 > some act,
 words, etc. that allows me to understand your feeling, but
 this
 > only gives me an *indirect*
 knowledge. Coming to illusions such as a
 > silver-nacre, the advaitasiddhi holds that
 two cognitions are involved
 > here. In
 the (erroneous) cognition, "this is silver", the
 "this" (idam)
 > part is
 objective, but the "silver" (rajatam) part is
 subjective. Why? When
 > a person seeing
 illusory silver says, "this is silver", another
 person in
 > the vicinity will certainly
 see some object as the first person did, but
 > he/she may not see the object as silver.
 It is possible the second person
 > is not
 affected by the illusion, and may, in fact, see the nacre,
 not
 > silver. So the agreement between
 the first person and the second person is
 > that there is "something" out
 there. The knowledge of "something" is
 > objective and is common to both persons.
 However, the knowledge of "silver"
 > is restricted to the first person who is
 affected by the illusion. The
 > second
 person may have the knowledge of nacre, not silver. This is
 why it
 > is said avidyAvRtti can be
 prAtibhAsika or vyAvahArika.
 > If we look
 "under the hood" and try to understand what is
 anataHkaraNa
 > vRtti and what is
 avidyAvRtti, it is important to note that objective
 > knowledge, called "pramA", is
 gained through a pramANa (means of knowledge,
 > such as perception, inference, scriptures,
 etc), while subjective
 > knowledge,
 including the prAtibhAsika type, is not so obtained. In the
 case
 > of subjective knowledge, the
 witness-consciousness (sAkShicaitanya)
 >
 cognizes it without the need for antaHkaraNavRtti.  In
 contrast, objective
 > knowledge gained
 through a pramANa results in the modification of the
 > antaHkaraNa (mind), called
 antaHkaraNavRtti. MahamahopAdhyAya Abhyankar has
 > remarked in his commentary on the
 siddhAntabindu (dashashlokI):
 >
 apramAjnAnaM na manovRttirUpaM kiMtu avidyAvRttirUpaM
 sAkShyAshrayam.
 >
 >
 > Anand
 >
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