[Advaita-l] Fwd: Unreality of the world and samsaara..

[H S Chandramouli]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Unreality of the world and samsaara..
To: Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>


To include your language in the response, I may add

<< knowledge about the true nature of myself should be intuitive and not
just bookish >> .

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 6:10 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Sri Venkat Raghavan,
>
> There is no " mystical " element. But " intuitive " , yes. Meaning of "
> intuitive " meant is " aparoksha " only. Just as we say understanding of
> the word " I " is intuitive. Not through any pramana , whether pratyaksha
> or inference or shabda. Mere understanding/ knowledge ( paroksha ) is
> definitely not sufficient.  We can study or learn or listen to talks by
> experts etc any number of times or on any number of texts , Shruti/Smriti
> included. We see for ourselves so many of them. Well none is a Jnani merely
> due to such learning. I quote the well known verse from Vivekachudamani (
> 60 )
>
> << vagvaikhari shabdajhari shastravyakhyanakaushalam I
>
>      vaidushyam vidusham tadvad bhuktaye na tu muktaye >>
>
> translation (Sri Shankaranarayanan )
>
> << Skill in fluent speech , the proficiency in explaining the sastras ,
> the scholarship of the learned , all make only for personal enjoyment but
> not for liberation >> .
>
> I hope I have understood your observation correctly and responded
> satisfactorily.
>
> Regards
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sri Chandramouli
>>
>> >> But according to Advaita , this is not something to be just
>> understood ( the way we study and understand any other subject ), but
>> something to be realized intuitively ( aparoksha ).
>>
>> Just wanted to clarify here - aparoksha gyAna, stated several times by
>> Swami ParamarthAnanda is simply knowledge about the true nature of myself.
>> There is no "mystical" element or "intuition".
>>
>> There is a chance that as used in that statement, it could be wrongly
>> interpreted that understanding or knowledge is insufficient, which I
>> understand to eminently not to be.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 1:24 PM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Sri Santosh Rao,
>>>
>>>
>>>  Reg your first query
>>>
>>>
>>>  << If the world / universe is ultimately unreal, is the proper
>>> understanding as per advaita to infer that samsaara is not really
>>> happening, but only appearing to do so? >> ,
>>>
>>>
>>>  I do not think this is the complete understanding of Advaita. No doubt
>>> this is part of the ultimate conclusion ( Tatparya ) of Advaita Sidhanta
>>> ,
>>> the other part being the identity of Brahman and Jiva . But according to
>>> Advaita , this is not something to be just understood ( the way we study
>>> and understand any other subject ), but something to be realized
>>> intuitively ( aparoksha ). Advaita prescribes a specific sadhana marga to
>>> achieve this. As part of this marga, the sadhaka must first get
>>> eligibility
>>> ( adhikaritva ) to undertake the later part of the sadhana which is
>>> shravana, manana and nididhyasana. During the first part ( gaining
>>> adhikaritva ) , the ulti mate conclusion ( that the samsara is unreal )
>>> could no doubt to be kept in the background , but all actions have to be
>>> undertaken as per the rules laid down in the scriptures which implies
>>> that
>>> the sadhaka should assume the creation to be real at least temporarily.
>>> He
>>> should thus become a sadhanachatushtaya sampanna which gives him the
>>> eligibility to undertake the later portion of the sadhana. During this
>>> period the sadhaka considers the creation to be real ( which comes
>>> naturally to him ) . Thus the second part of your first query
>>>
>>>
>>>  << If this is correct, how exactly is this apparently "real" order of
>>> karma,
>>> cause, and effect to be understood? How can we logically differentiate
>>> between good and bad actions that will lead to good and bad future births
>>> if good and bad don't exist to begin with within a system that doesn't
>>> exist to begin with? >>
>>>
>>>
>>>  is not valid till such eligibility is obtained .
>>>
>>>
>>>  Regards.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Santosh Rao via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Pranams, 2 questions...
>>> >
>>> > 1) If the world / universe is ultimately unreal, is the proper
>>> > understanding as per advaita to infer that samsaara is not really
>>> > happening, but only appearing to do so?
>>> >
>>> > If this is correct, how exactly is this apparently "real" order of
>>> karma,
>>> > cause, and effect to be understood? How can we logically differentiate
>>> > between good and bad actions that will lead to good and bad future
>>> births
>>> > if good and bad don't exist to begin with within a system that doesn't
>>> > exist to begin with?
>>> >
>>> > 2) Is Maya eternal like Brahman? What is it's exact nature? A link to a
>>> > previous discussion regarding this topic would be appreciated, I don't
>>> see
>>> > a way to search the archives.
>>> >
>>> > Thx,
>>> >
>>> > Santosh
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>>> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>> >
>>> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
>>> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>> >
>>> > For assistance, contact:
>>> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>>> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>>
>>> For assistance, contact:
>>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>>
>>
>>
>