[Advaita-l] Knowledge of Brahman

[Harsha Bhat]

Thank you Subbu sir,
                                              Completely understood,But
please explain dwe suparne mantra,in (Shankara) advaitha point of view.

In dwe suparne matra says even in moksha there are two birds,So,according
to vedas only second bird (Bhudhi) exists even in moksha...

But according to advaitha in paramartha level there is only one reality i:e
brahman and there is no bhudhi...

So,how do you explain dwe suparne matra in advaitha point of view?

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 11:05 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> But In advaitha brahman is without swarupa jgnana........
>>
>>
>> Brahman with swarupa jgnana can be called as swayam prakasha, as you said
>> ,when we are woken up we know that we are present ,even without light...
>>
>> But in advaitha brahman is without swarupa jgnana ,hence in advaitha
>> brahman is not swayam praksha...
>>
>> As in deep sleep ,we are not aware that we are present...
>>
>
> We are not aware 'during' sleep because the vijñānamaya kosha
> (buddhi/manas) is resolved. Yet, when we wake up we say: I slept happily, I
> did not know anything.'.  This is possible only when we have experienced
> the happiness. Vidyaranya has explained thus: Even if vijnanamaya kosha is
> resolved in sleep, the ānandamaya kosha is awake then. It grasps the
> experience of ānanda and also the experience of ignorance then.  When we
> wake up, we express that saushuptika experience through the vijnana maya
> kosha.  We can understand this by an analogy:
>
> A man receives payment from his office for having worked as a manager. He
> spends that money for his family as a family man. So, same entity, with two
> different upadhis performs the functions that are two different ones.
> Similarly, the same jiva, as ananda maya experiences in sushupti and as
> vijnana maya expresses it on waking.  So, Atman's sva prakāshatva is never
> lost; it continues forever; only the experiencing medium is different.
>
>>
>> But vedas call brahman swayam prakasha...that means brahman has swarupa
>> jgnana...that means brahman is not nirguna....as advaithis claim...
>>
>
> That is not so. 'Svyam prakāsha' is only the other name for 'jnanam,
> vijnanam brahma' of the Taittiriya/Br.up. This is not any guna of Brahman
> but the very svarupa of it. A guna, attribute, comes through māyā to
> Brahman. Every one of the 'ananta kalyāṇa guṇa gaṇa' is possible ONLY
> through prakriti sambandha to Brahman and not by Itself.
>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 10:59 PM, Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Kunthi mathi sir,
>> >
>> >         You also said,
>> > Oh! That I can see! I can see that I cannot see! – In essence I can see
>> > that is dark without any light – in fact I do not need light to see
>> > darkness or even ignorance since I know that I do not know if there is a
>> > chair or not.
>> >
>> > Here you mean to say that there is no need of knowledge to see
>> > ignorance,or light to see darkness...but,you should have swarupa jgnana
>> to
>> > see darkness also...or in other words...in deep sleep you cannot see
>> > darkness...But in advaitha brahman is without swarupa jgnana,how the
>> > brahman without swarupa jgnna can see darkness or ignorance?????
>> >
>> >
>> > And Also...
>> >
>> > Q. Sir, Are you there in the room since you said it is too dark that you
>> > cannot see anything?
>> > A. Of course I know I am there. I do not need light to see myself as I
>> am
>> > self-revealing to myself! I am aprameyam not an object (with gunas) for
>> me
>> > to see or to know! I am self-existing and self-conscious entity.
>> >
>> > But,I am not self-revealing to myself when I am in deep sleep no sir?...
>> > When I am in deep sleep,I consciousness is not revealing to myself no
>> > sir?...then how do you say that I consciousness is self -revealing or
>> > swayam prakasha TO MYSELF?
>> >
>> > HERE WHAT I ADD IS, I SHOULD HAVE LIGHT OF SWARUPA JGNANA TO REVEAL
>> > MYSELF,I AM NOT REVEALING TO MY SELF WITHOUT SWARUPA GNANA.FOR EXAMPLE
>> IN
>> > DEEP SLEEP WITHOUT SWARUPA GNANA I AM NOT SELF REVEALING TO MY SELF...
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Kunthi -mathi sir,you said
>> >>
>> >> Q. Sir, Are you there in the room since you said it is too dark that
>> you
>> >> cannot see anything?
>> >> A. Of course I know I am there. I do not need light to see myself as I
>> am
>> >> self-revealing to myself! I am aprameyam not an object (with gunas)
>> for me
>> >> to see or to know! I am self-existing and self-conscious entity.
>> >>
>> >> But,I am not self-revealing to myself when I am in deep sleep no
>> sir?...
>> >> When I am in deep sleep,I consciousness is not revealing to myself no
>> >> sir?...then how do you say that I consciousness is self -revealing or
>> >> swayam prakasha?
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >>> From: Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
>> >>> Date: Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 3:02 PM
>> >>> Subject: Fwd: [Advaita-l] Knowledge of Brahman
>> >>> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <
>> >>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >>> From: Harsha Bhat <harsha9519 at gmail.com>
>> >>> Date: Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 8:40 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Knowledge of Brahman
>> >>> To: "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at braincells.com>, A discussion group
>> for
>> >>> Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Jaldar sir,
>> >>>                            One interesting point here,
>> >>>
>> >>>                       According to advaitha in moksha or in  turya
>> >>> state,there will not be any swarupa jgnana,or knowledge of self  to
>> athman.
>> >>>
>> >>> So,my question is ,if a person has swarupa jgnana ,then he may get
>> >>> affected by swarupa-agjnana or (maya).
>> >>>
>> >>> But one who don't have swarupa jgnana ,(like stone)...will never get
>> >>> swarupa agnana...
>> >>>
>> >>> Or in other words maya or avaidhya can never affect nirguna...and make
>> >>> him feel that he is finite...
>> >>>
>> >>> So,how you will prove the creation of this world here ...according to
>> >>> advaitha?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> regards,
>> >>> Harsha Bhat
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Jaldhar H. Vyas <
>> jaldhar at braincells.com
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sat, 7 Nov 2015, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  We get the moksha through the knowledge of brahman according to
>> >>>>> vedas,but
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1)Infinite cannot be known by finite.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The finite does not actually exist.  It only appears to do so because
>> >>>> of maya.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2)Nirguna can never be known ,because suguna can be known through
>> >>>>> suguna's
>> >>>>> guna,but nirguna can never be known,because he is attribute less.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As a consequence of 1, when the delusionary gunas are negated then
>> what
>> >>>> is left is the nirguna brahman.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 3)Nirguna cannot have knowledge.As knowledge is also a guna.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> On Sat, 7 Nov 2015, Harsha Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sorry small change to my third point said above,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 3)Nirguna cannot have knowledge,as HAVING knowledge is also a
>> guna...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> No only the conventional (vyavaharic) knowledge which is based on the
>> >>>> premise of duality is a guna.  From the paramarthic standpoint you
>> do not
>> >>>> need to "know" Brahman because you are and always have been
>> Brahman.  Only
>> >>>> maya deluded you into forgetting that.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
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