[Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46

[Venkatesh Murthy]

 Namaste
 On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 1:28 AM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Yes, the question doesn't arise for us, because we say the snake doesn't
> exist.
>
> But when asked, we have to explain its appearance - and the answer we give
> depends on the qualifications of the questioner.
>
> If the questioner is a madhyama adhikAri, we say yes it appears, but the
> existence that you see is not the snake, but Brahman. The snake does not
> really exist.
>
> To an uttama adhikAri, we simply say it doesn't exist.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan

What happens to Adhama Adhikari, you did not say. Because this type of
people is more than 99%. To them we have to say yes the snake is real
and it will bite you if you don't follow our rules. If you follow the
rules it will protect you. This is the Dvaitis method.

Most of the religions are to prevent people behaving like brutes. It
is simple. If a person cannot control himself and behaves like a brute
he must be afraid of God. But if a person can control himself and not
behave like a brute himself he will not have to be afraid of anybody.


> On 8 Sep 2015 20:40, "Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Hari Om,
>> Pranams
>>
>> When the snake itself does not exist, where is the question of dependency?
>>
>> thanks and regards
>> -- durga prasad
>>
>> ________________________________
>> > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 09:14:55 +0100
>> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's
>> > Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46
>> > From: agnimile at gmail.com
>> > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org; janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com
>> > CC: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Namaste Sri Durga Prasad.
>> >
>> > Dvaitins hold Veda to be apaurusheya too.
>> > For advaitins, Veda are nishvAsitam, the breath of Ishvara (see
>> > BrihadAraNyaka reference below). They are apaurusheya and anAdi for us
>> > too.
>> >
>> > "Asya mahato bhUtasya nishvAsitam etad yad rigvedo yajurvedah samavedo
>> > atharvAngirasah", Br. Up. 2.4.10
>> >
>> > However, from a paramArtha drishti, no vastu, not even any of the anAdi
>> > vastu's, has any differientated existence from Brahman. The vedAs, like
>> > jIva, jagat and Ishvara, are non different from Brahman, and have no
>> > independent existence outside Brahman.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Venkatraghavan
>> >
>> > On 8 Sep 2015 01:30, "Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l"
>> > <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>
>> > wrote:
>> > Hari Om,
>> > Pranams.
>> >
>> > Few doubts:
>> > 1. For an advaitin, Veda is apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय).
>> > Is Veda apauruSeya or the pauruSeya for  Dwaitins  and Visistadvaitins?
>> > If Veda is pauruSeya, then they have problems of
>> > a. mutual dependency and
>> > b. aswatantra pramana of vedas.
>> > How are these answered?
>> >
>> > 2. Does Veda has a 'dependent and borrowed existence' for an advaitin?
>> > Or is Veda anAdi  for an advaitin?
>> >
>> > thanks and regards
>> > -- durga prasad
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > > Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 10:42:09 +0530
>> > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] mithyA and abhAva chatuShTaya - Vaadiraaja's
>> > > Nyayaratnavali Slokas 43-46
>> > > From: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com<mailto:v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> > > To: janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com<mailto:janaswamy2001 at hotmail.com>;
>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> > >
>> > > Dear Sri Durgaprasad ji,
>> > >
>> > > The point being made in these posts is: Dvaita admits ONLY Viṣṇu
>> > > (Brahman) to have Swatantra Sattā/satya. Everything else derive their
>> > > reality/existence from Brahman and therefore are categorized as
>> > > 'paratantra sattā/satya.'   Naturally, they do not admit the Veda to
>> > > have Swatantra sattā nor can they say that the Veda enjoys the same
>> > > level of sattā as Brahman in which  case there will be two entities
>> > > having Swatantra satya: Brahman and Veda which position is not correct
>> > > even according to them.  Thus, in conclusion, for them too, like
>> > > advaitins, the Veda has only a second level, a dependent, borrowed
>> > > existence and not the first class existence.
>> > >
>> > > Advaitins openly hold that the Veda belongs to the Vyāvahārika satya.
>> > >
>> > > regards
>> > > vs
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Durga Janaswamy via Advaita-l
>> > >
>> > <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org><mailto:
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > Hari Om,
>> > >
>> > > Pranams.
>> > >
>> > > For the last few days, I am not getting emails from Advaita-l mailing
>> list.
>> > >
>> > > In the archives, I saw the following in one of the emails on the
>> subject:
>> > >
>> > > "Good point, but here the question is not whether VedAs are svatantram
>> > > or paratantram, but whether they have svatantra sattA or paratantra
>> > > sattA?
>> > > If something depends on something else for its existence, it has no
>> > > independent existence of its own. This is the advaita position: that
>> > > VedAs themselves have no svatantra sattA- they ultimately have to
>> > > depend on Brahman for their existence."
>> > >
>> > > Vedas being apauruSeya (अपौरुषेय), the relation between Brahman and
>> > > Vedas need to be understood carefully. It is discussed  in  Brahma
>> > > Sutra: 1.1.3 shAstrayonitvAt (शास्त्रयोनित्वात्) under two heads:
>> > >
>> > > 1. (Brahman is omniscient)  because of (Its) being the source of the
>> > > scriptures.
>> > >
>> > > 2. (Brahman is not known from any other source), since the scriptures
>> > > are the valid means of Its knowledge.
>> > >
>> > > "The Vedas are given out by the Supreme Being at the beginning of each
>> > > cycle of creation without effort as in breathing out. But even He does
>> > > not have liberty in creating the Vedas. He creates them exactly in the
>> > > same way as they were in the previous kalpa. That in turn is in the
>> > > same form as in the kalpa previous to it. Thus the same Vedas are given
>> > > out again and again in each kalpa. Creation is beginningless and so
>> > > there is no such thing as the first creation of the Vedas. Though the
>> > > Supreme Being gives out the Vedas in every kalpa, he has no liberty in
>> > > creating them. It is because of this lack of absolute freedom in
>> > > creating that the Vedas are called ‘apaurusheya’."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Please see the following link (Brahmasutra 1.1.3 -- शास्त्रयोनित्वात्
>> > > Translation of the lectures of Dr. Mani Dravid Sastri)
>> > >
>> > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw-rceu2TxMUakQ3Q09jeU5ORjg
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > thank you and regards
>> > > -- durga prasad
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>> > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>> > >
>> > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> > > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>> > >
>> > > For assistance, contact:
>> > >
>> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>> ><mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:
>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org>>
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>> >
>> > For assistance, contact:
>> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>
>> For assistance, contact:
>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org



-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh