[Advaita-l] JAGAT MITHYATVAM IN ADVAITA - A CONCLUSION - part -1

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

Dear Venkatesh Murthyji,

You said 

Quote
But why will Jnani try to involve in worldly affairs like wife and children and getting
children through wife and so on? He should be totally not interested in all these things
Unquote

Yes, the Jnani is really not  interested in the worldly things. He knows that he is not necessarily a man with wife and children, all along his sojourn in the world of Maya,  The Jnani would not even think of himself as a human being for ever and the acid-test for a jnani is when he can visualize that. Today he is a man, but  yesterday (in the past life) he might not have been a man at all and could have been a woman and in some of his births he could have been even an animal or something else. He is seeing the world as a movie, where the scenes are changing and he is just biding his time and  waiting for the movie to be over. May be someone may be able to give a better description of how the jnani sees the world of Maya.

Regards,
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 4/29/16, Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] JAGAT MITHYATVAM IN ADVAITA - A CONCLUSION - part -1
 To: "V Subrahmanian" <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Friday, April 29, 2016, 4:04 AM
 
 Namaste Sri
 Subrahmanian
 
 Here I have
 one doubt. If you are saying Jnani will see the world
 like
 mirage water we know even ordinary man
 will not try to drink mirage
 water after he
 has known it is a mirage water only. But why will Jnani
 try to involve in worldly affairs like wife and
 children and getting
 children through wife
 and so on? He should be totally not interested
 in all these things. If you say it is Prarabdha
 Karma but why will
 Prarabdha Karma force him
 to knowingly drink mirage water? How is this
 logic correct?
 
 On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:30 PM, V
 Subrahmanian via Advaita-l
 <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 3:45 PM,
 Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
 > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 >
 >>
 praNAms
 >> Hare Krishna
 >>
 >> First of all,
 before quoting the shruti and bhAshyakAra, I would like
 to
 >> quote couple of references from
 my parama guruji Sri SSS from one of his
 >> articles published in 2014 from
 adhyAtma prakAsha kAryAlaya in monthly
 >> magazine adhyAtma prakAsha and another
 one from his minor work 'brahma
 >>
 vidyA'.  I am just reproducing the first one i.e.
 article in adhyAtma
 >> prakAsha  as
 it is written in Kannada  :
 >>
 >> // quote //
 >>
 >> haagaadare
 tattvajnAnavAdamelAdarU prapanchavu mithyeyendu tOruvudO
 illavO
 >> ??  Aga mAtra idu
 mithyeyaagi tOralu kAraNavenu??  endu yaaraadaru
 shankisa
 >> bahudu.  idakke
 uttaravenendare, nijavaagi yaavaagalu prapanchavu
 >> mithyavendu kaaNisuvude illa. 
 ekendare Atmanannu bittare prapanchavembudu
 >> bereyaagi iruvudilla.  ajnAnigaLige
 avara paramAtma svarUpavu tiLiyadu.
 >>
 Addarinda avaru bhinabhinnaraagiruva jeevarugaLannu alli
 avarugaLu
 >> vyavaharisuttiruva
 prapanchavannu kaaNuttiruttaare.  Adare avaru
 >> AtmasAkshAtkAravannu padedare "
 idellavu Atmane" emba shrutiya arthavannu
 >> managANuttaare.  Aga avarige
 prapanchavu Atmane Agi biduvudarinda adu
 >> paramasatyavaagi biduttade.
 >>
 >> Addarinda
 "jagattu mithyeye?? "?  emba prashnege katta
 kadeya uttaravu
 >> yaavadaayitu?? 
 adu taaniruva paramArtha rUpadalli Atmane, brahmave.
 >> Addarinda adu nijavaagiye satyavaagide
 hIge nOdidare yaavadondU mithyave
 >>
 alla.  ajnAnigaLige tOruttiruva brahma bhinnavaada
 jagattembudu illave
 >> illa; Addarinda
 adannu satyavendaagali, mithyavendaagali vingadisuvudakke
 >> kaaraNavilla.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 The above conclusion is contradicted by Shankara, in BGB
 2.16 end:
 >
 >
 त्वमपि
 तत्त्वदर्शिनां
 दृष्टिमाश्रित्य शोकं
 मोहं च हित्वा
 शीतोष्णादीनि
 >
 नियतानियतरूपाणि
 द्वन्द्वानि
 *विकारोऽयमसन्नेव
 मरीचिजलवन्मिथ्यावभासते
 *इति
 > मनसि
 निश्चित्य तितिक्षस्व
 इत्यभिप्रायः।।
 >
 > Translation by Swami
 Gambhirananda:
 >
 >
 Therefore, you too, by adopting *the vision of the men of
 realization *and
 > giving up sorrow and
 delusion, forbear the dualities, heat, cold, etc. some
 > of which are definite in their nature, and
 others inconstant , mentally
 > being
 convinced that this (phenomenal world) is changeful, *verily
 unreal
 > and appears falsely like water
 in a mirage.//*
 >
 >
 The Kannada translation of the above line of the bhashyam by
 Sri SSS:
 >
 > //nīnū
 antaḥ tattvadarśigaḷa dṛṣṭīyannu
 āśrayisikoṇḍu śokavannū mohavannū
 > biṭṭu śītosṇagaḷu muntāda
 niyatarūpavāgiyū aniyatarūpavāgiyū iruva
 > dvandagaḷannu 'idu kāryavāddarinda
 bisilukudureya nīrinante asatte āgiddu
 > husiyāgi toruttide' endu manassinalli
 niścayisikoṇḍu taḍeduko endu
 >
 abhiprāya.//
 >
 > Sri
 SSS has very correctly translated the bhashya: the way in
 which the
 > Jnani sees the world, its
 transformations: as the mirage water even though
 > non-existent, asat, yet appears unreal.
 The Kannada word for that is
 >
 'husiyāgi toruvudu'.  So, according to the
 translation, the Jnani will see
 > the
 world, its transformations, as a mere appearance, knowing
 that it does
 > not exist really.
 >
 > Someone can kindly
 reproduce here Sri SSS's translation for  the
 following
 > bhashya sentences too,
 especially the 4.1.19 BSB.
 >
 >
 > In the BSB 4.1.15
 Shankara clearly says:
 >
 > बाधितमपि तु
 मिथ्याज्ञानं
 द्विचन्द्रज्ञानवत्संस्कारवशात्कंचित्कालमनुवर्तत
 एव
 > ।
 > [Even
 after having been annulled, sublated, the mithyājnānam,
 > false-knowledge, like the two-moon
 perception, will certainly continue for
 >
 some time.]
 > BSB 4.1.19
 >
 > ननु
 सत्यपि सम्यग्दर्शने
 यथा
 प्राग्देहपाताद्भेददर्शनं
 >
 द्विचन्द्रदर्शनन्यायेनानुवृत्तम्,
 एवं
 पश्चादप्यनुवर्तेत — न,
 निमित्ताभवात् ।
 > Objection:  Even when the right
 realization is there, just as perception of
 > difference, bheda darshanam, persists till
 the fall of the body (of the
 > Jnani),
 let it (perception of bheda) continue even after death?
 > [For this objection Shankara answers,
 उपभोगशेषक्षपणं हि
 >
 तत्रानुवृत्तिनिमित्तम्,
 न च तादृशमत्र
 किञ्चिदस्ति । [The exhaustion of
 > experience of prarabdha  alone is the
 limit for such continuance (of bheda
 >
 darshanam). Such prarabdha is no longer there after the body
 falls.
 > Thus, Shankara explicitly says
 that the Jnani perceives the mithyā world,
 > with the knowledge that it is mithya. 
 That is why he is giving the analogy
 > of
 (1) the mirage water - where the water appearance is
 continuing to be
 > perceived but the
 knowledge that it is mithya is also there and (2) the
 > two-moon perception where owing to an
 ocular disease, a person perceives
 > two
 moons while he knows that it is only one.  These two
 analogies, for
 > Shankara, are to explain
 the state of the Jnani's perception of the world
 > of multiplicity, while he knows that it is
 mithyā.
 >
 > This
 topic was discussed long ago, in 2009, and an article
 available here
 > was the outcome of
 that:
 > https://adbhutam.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/the-enlightened-eminently-engage-in-empirical-endeavours/
 >
 > regards
 > vs
 >
 >
 >> jagattendaadaru
 kareyiri, brahmavendaadaru kareyiri; iruvudu Onde Ondu
 >> adviteeyavAda paramArtha satyavu. 
 adakkinta bereyaagi yaavadondU iruvade
 >> illa.
 >>
 >> // unquote //
 >>
 >> Those who can
 read and understand Kannada, above two paragraphs are
 >> self-explanatory.  And those who
 donot know Kannada the gist of above
 >> observation of Sri SSS is about 
 jnAni's perception of jagat after the
 >> svarUpa jnana.  Sri SSS poses a
 question here : After realization whether
 >> this jagat become mithyA for the
 jnAni??  And why this jagat would become
 >> mithyA for the jnAni only after
 realization??  For this Sri SSS clarifies :
 >> THERE IS NOTHING LIKE MITHYA PRAPANCHA
 AT ANY POINT OF TIME  because
 >>
 prapancha (jagat) does not deviate from brahman and does not
 exist apart
 >> from brahman.  Only
 ajnAni-s due to their parichinna jnana would see the
 >> various jeeva-s and manifold objects
 and transactions.  When they realize
 >> they would come to know that 'all
 this is Atman only'.  Therefore, Sri SSS
 >> in second pyara concludes :  For the
 question : is this jagat mithyA??  The
 >> ultimate answer is :  that (jagat) in
 its sadrUpa (paramArtha rUpa) Atman
 >>
 only brahman only.  Therefore this (jagat) is REAL, FOR
 THAT MATTER THERE
 >> IS NOTHING THAT
 CAN BE CALLED  'MITHYA'.  For the ajnAni-s this
 jagat would
 >> appear bhinna from
 brahman (separate from brahman), that which does not
 >> exist at all.  Therefore no need for
 exercise like tattvAnyatvAbhyAm for
 >>
 this avidyA kalpita jagat.  Whether you call this jagat or
 brahman what is
 >> there is ONLY one
 and that is paramArtha satya there exists nothing apart
 >> from it.
 >>
 >> And Sri SSS further clarifies in
 brahma vidye (again a Kannada book) at
 >> the end quotes one shruti vAkya :
 brahma dAshA brahma dAsA brahmaiveme
 >> kitavAH and advises that realization
 of this universal truth (sarvatrika
 >>
 satya) is the parama purushArtha jnana, janma sAphalya
 jnana.  Those who
 >> attain this
 jnana is dvija Sri SSS quotes manu here.
 >>
 >> And in his
 various prakaraNa works like jeevanta vedAnta, anubhava
 >> paryanta vedAnta, mAndUkya rahasya
 vivruttiH, shAnkara vedAnta,
 >>
 Misconceptions about shankara vedAnta etc.  Sri SSS deals
 with this subject
 >> and clarifies
 that sarvAtmakatvaM is what is advocated in
 shankara's
 >> Advaita vedAnta and
 jagan mithyatvaM is not an essential criterial to
 >> arrive this truth.
 >>
 >> In the next
 part we shall look into the shruti and shankara bhAshya (
 >> which I have already covered in my
 previous mails) to this effect.
 >>
 >> Hari Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
 >> bhaskar
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
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 -- 
 Regards
 
 -Venkatesh
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