[Advaita-l] Another's analysis of the Uttara Kanda (Was Re: Ramopakhyana of Mahabharata vs. the Uttara Kanda of Ramayana)

[S Jayanarayanan]

Note the significant difference between the following two comments:
 
  Comment 1: "Killing a messenger is not advisable according to socially accepted norms."
 
  Comment 2: "We have not heard of any messenger having been killed in the past."
 
Being well aware of Ravana's past, Vibhishana should have chosen the first comment in the case of an historical precedence, not the second!
  

      From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
 To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>; S Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com> 
 Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 12:38 PM
 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Another's analysis of the Uttara Kanda (Was Re: Ramopakhyana of Mahabharata vs. the Uttara Kanda of Ramayana)
   
Here  Vibhishana was talking of the maximum permissible punishments to the messenger (depending on how the messenger presented the message.  This in spite of  Vibhishana's knowledge that  Ravana,out of his anger,  did kill the messenger of Kuvera, with his Kharga. .

Regards,
Sunil Bhattacharjya
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/10/16, S Jayanarayanan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

 Subject: [Advaita-l] Another's analysis of the Uttara Kanda (Was Re: Ramopakhyana of Mahabharata vs. the Uttara Kanda of Ramayana)
 To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Friday, June 10, 2016, 11:56 AM
 
 Changed the subject
 line. I just performed a Google search, and found the
 following website with many observations, but one very
 important point: http://sriramayanakandukuri.blogspot.com/2015/01/uttara-kanda-prakshipta.html 3)
     While trying to stop Ravana in ordering killing of Sri
 Hanuma,  Vibhishana says there was no precedence,  of
 killing messenger (Sundara Kanda). 
 वैरूप्याम्
 अन्गेषु कश अभिघातो |
 
 मौण्ड्यम्
 तथा लक्ष्मण सम्निपातः
 |
 
 एतान् हि
 दूते प्रवदन्ति
 दण्डान् |
 
 वधः तु दूतस्य न नः
 श्रुतो अपि ||  
 
 (Sundara Kanda 52 Sarga 15 Sloka) 
 "Some of the punishments to an envoy
 are-deforming the limbs, striking with a whip, shaving the
 head and impressing marks on the body. Indeed, we have not
 heard at any time of killing a messenger."
  
  Vibhishana was saying just
 One month before Great Battle that took place in Lanka.  He
 was saying that till then there was no precedence of Killing
 a messenger.
  
  However, it
 was narrated in the 13 th Sarga of Uttara Kanda about
 killing of the messenger of Kubera by Ravana.   This
 incident stated to had been took place at the time of
 Ravana's commencement of wars on Devatas, Yakshas,
 Gandharvas, etc, at his younger age.
  
  Had Ravana really killed a messenger of
 Kubera, Vibhishana might not had said that there was no
 precedence of Killing a messenger.
   
  
       From: Ryan
 Armstrong <ryanarm at gmail.com>
  To:
 S Jayanarayanan <sjayana at yahoo.com>;
 A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 
  Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 2:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Ramopakhyana of
 Mahabharata vs. the Uttara Kanda of Ramayana
    
 Namaste
 
 Sorry to "resurrect"
 an old discussion...
 Last night, while
 reading Mahabharata, I came across an episode in Shanti
 Parva:
 It is in section 153 where
 Yudhishthira asks Bhishma if he has ever heard of a mortal
 being restored to life after having succumbed to death.
 In the Answer, there is a reference to Sri Rama
 and the Sudra Samvuka.
 A child had died
 before the father, and the father petitioned Sri Rama's
 help since this had not occurred in the kingdom during His
 reign.
 The reason was that Samvuka was
 engaged in ascetic penances and so Sri Rama cut off his head
 and the child was restored to life.
 
 This story is from the Uttara Kanda.
 I am not really in a position to answer the
 initial question about whether it was part of the original
 Ramayana of Valmiki.
 Bhishma may have
 received the story from another source.
 The
 point is that at the time of the composition of Mahabharata,
 this story was known...even though not mentioned in the
 "Ramopakhanya" portion.
 
 Yours in Truth
 Ryan 
 
 On 3 May 2016 at 02:03, S
 Jayanarayanan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 
  It has debated
 whether or not the Uttara Kanda constitutes a part of the
 original Valmiki Ramayana, or is a later addition to the
 text.
  
 Here is the reason
 why I believe the Uttara Kanda may not have been a part of
 the original Valmiki Ramayana:
 The
 Mahabharata actually contains the "Story of Rama, the
 Son of Dasaratha", known as "Ramopakhyana".
 After talking about Rama and Lakshmana going to the forest,
 Sita's captivity, Hanuman setting fire to Lanka, war
 with Kumbhakarna, death of Ravana, freeing Sita etc., it
 ends with:
 "And then assisted by the
 celestial Rishi (Vasishtha), Rama performed on the banks of
 the Gomati ten horse sacrifices without obstruction of any
 kind and with treble presents unto Brahmanas."
  
 Surprising that the
 "Ramopakhyana" as narrated in the Mahabharata ends
 exactly at the same place as the Yuddha Kanda of the Valmiki
 Ramayana (i.e. the beginning of Rama Rajyam), with no
 mention of the later events of the Uttara Kanda!
  
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 -- 
 Regards
 
 Ryan Armstrong
 +27 82 852 7787
 ryanarm at gmail.com
 
 
   
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