[Advaita-l] JAGAT MITHYATVAM IN ADVAITA - A CONCLUSION - part -1

JAYANTI SATYANARAYANA SASTRY mail2jssastry at gmail.com
Sun May 1 05:16:42 CDT 2016
Next message: [Advaita-l] JAGAT MITHYATVAM IN ADVAITA - A CONCLUSION - part -1
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SIR,
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     J S Sastry

On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Ravi Kiran via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Sati Shankar <studiesggroup at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for kind attention.
> > I think the core lies in,
> > "He, *PrajApati,* (= brahmn) manifests in "Himself", so this universe,
> > *idam sarvam*,
> > percieved according to *anurUpam, pratirUpam*,to be declared " One and
> > many".
> >  Manifested",* idam sarvam*, is where two opposites or better say
> > counterparts as pperceived  in duality, sat-asat, sat-muthyA, ... etc...
> >  are the :syzygy of Conjoint principle" as *PrajApti*, thus manifested
> > with  his own  multifarious *sva-bhAva,* The said conjoint principle, on
> > which RigVeda has enough to support,  the way being *anurUpah*,
> > *pratirUpah,*(JBU.I.27), refers to the situation where we can question
> > how He when menifests in himself be, even in part a mithyA,
> >
>
> Right, there is no entity *existing* apart (anya) from ekam eva adviteeya
> paramArtha vastu (Brahman), as said in Sruti,
>
> yato vA imAni bhUtAni jAyante.. ( Tait. U)
>
> satyam jnAnam anantam Brahma ( Tait. U)
>
> satyasya satyaM (BU)
>
> सलिल एको द्रष्टाद्वैतो भवति (BU),
>
> ..
>
> Thanks
>
>
> > I am not making an statement but yes this aspect has some broken link in
> > the continuous history of our traditional commentaries, which needs to be
> > checked and clarified.
> > Regards
> > Sati Shankar
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Ravi Kiran <ravikiranm108 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Sati Shankar via Advaita-l <
> >> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> praNAm
> >>> I feel lucky having joined this group, at least I reached a place where
> >>> some meaningful discussion is going on.
> >>> Many of the variations which we encounter are due to semantics*,
> mithyA*
> >>> is
> >>> never an illusion nor "False" as we encounter in textbook and general
> >>> texts. When I started studying, found AchArya Shankar himself has said
> he
> >>> had been saying what has been already there and this led me go backward
> >>> right to Rig Veda.and  hence started reconsidering most of the core as
> a
> >>> facet of continuity. same applies to unity and duality also.
> >>> I can not be comprehensive here is a short note:
> >>> Let us consider our own tradition;
> >>> In our Sanatan tradition,  whatever we perceive, the form and name it,*
> >>> nAma -  rUpa*, is realised in our tradition as *vishvam ekam*, (RV.
> >>> 3.54.8), the many are the One  and the One that is manifold, *vishvam
> >>> satyam*, (RV. 2.24.12); the manifold truth,and *vishvam .....garbham*
> >>> (RV.
> >>> 10.121.7). therefore, if asked, "Is He One or many?", our tradition
> >>> says,"One and many", The general principle is ,the *devah* is every
> where
> >>> of one and the same form. (RV.8.11.8)., that is, "Even as he seems, so
> is
> >>> he named" (RV. 5.44.6)., the way being *anurUpah*, *pratirUpah,*
> >>> (JBU.I.27). So how can there be a part *satyam *and  an other* mithyA?*
> >>> Here,
> >>> He, *PrajApati,* manifests in "Himself", so this universe, *idam
> sarvam*,
> >>> pecieved according to *anurUpam, pratirUpam*,to be declared " One and
> >>> many". It is the semantic mis-marriage that the translation of the
> >>> *NasadIya
> >>> Sukta*, the Manifestation Hymn, as called the "Creation Hymn", which
> >>> signifies the error interpretation and naming by the Indologists had in
> >>> their minds the "Creationist presuppositions" of Christianity.
> Therefore,
> >>> using the "God" for the  "Self. Manifested",* idam sarvam*, is like
> >>> limiting Him and equally makes "theology" a term unfit to proceed for
> >>> *brahma
> >>> jijnAsA* of our tradition.*PrajApti*, thus manifested in Himself,* idam
> >>> sarvam*,selforganizes in dharma by his own  multifarious *sva-bhAva,*
> >>> such
> >>> that in Him are all beings, *idam sarvam,- manas, prAnah, nAma-rUpa,
> *are
> >>> within, as coincident; " sent by Him onto him, and born of Him into
> him,
> >>> it
> >>> is in Him that all this universe is stabilised, that is how our
> tradition
> >>> invokes for *shAnti, ... sarve devAh shAntih, nakshatrh shAntih,
> >>> vanaspatayah shantih.....aum shAntih, shAntih, shAntih..*. to keep the
> >>> equilibrium  in *idam sarvam* intact, for welfare of the cosmos. Our
> >>> scriptures teach,"*idam sarvam brahm*" and therefore, being a
> >>> manifestation
> >>> within,   *Aham brahmAsmi*  since we ,*aikik *and *samyaka *are this
> >>> "*idam
> >>> sarvam*", well connected in such a way that a chance deviation at any
> >>> level, be it microcosm or macrocosm, does not leave unaffected within.
> >>> When
> >>> "idam sarvam brahmn" how can there be something called mithyA?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks. In the same light,
> >>
> >> in that samyak jnAna or brahmAtmaikatva jnAna, is there a "jagat
> vishEsha
> >> jnAna" also embedded?
> >>
> >> If so, comes the next question for discussion, whether such a jagat, is
> >> sathya or mithya ?
> >>
> >> Or in other words,
> >>
> >> When we discuss jagat as sathya or jagat as mithya, is it not that
> >>
> >> the jnAna takes the rUpa as "jagat sathya" ( vishEsha jnAna A) in upAdhi
> >> 1 and
> >>
> >> the jnAna takes the rUpa as "jagat mithya" ( vishEsha jnAna B) in
> upAdhi 2
> >>
> >> What is the svarUpa (source or nature) of such vishEsha jnAna ?
> >>
> >> Does that svarUpa jnAna (paramArtha sathya) have any place for (or has
> >> anything to do with)
> >> vishEsha's like jagat sathya or jagat mithya ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> So is the observation by this ignorant.
> >>> Regards
> >>>  Sati Shankar.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
> >>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > praNAms
> >>> > Hare Krishna
> >>> >
> >>> > First of all my heartfelt praNAms to all prabhuji-s who have
> patiently
> >>> > participated in this discussion and shared their thoughts.  After
> >>> > exchanging more than 200 mails on this topic, as I promised I am
> >>> writing
> >>> > down my final thoughts on it.  I must say here by no means it is
> 'the'
> >>> > conclusion in Advaita saMpradAya but shared thoughts do have the base
> >>> in
> >>> > shankara bhAshya and shruti.   And more importantly Sri SSS's works
> too
> >>> > somewhere advocated this same view point.  From all these discussion,
> >>> we
> >>> > can flatly conclude that there is no difference of opinion on
> >>> > brahmaikatvaM, satyatvaM, nirvisheshatvaM etc.,  there is no
> >>> difference of
> >>> > opinion on availability of this jagat in vyavahAra to each and every
> >>> one,
> >>> > hence jagat astitvaM has been accepted as vyavahArika satta  and
> again
> >>> > there is no difference of opinion about jeeva svarUpa is ultimately
> >>> brahman
> >>> > only (jeevO brahmaiva na apara) in these discussions.  Problem starts
> >>> for
> >>> > us  when one party say for the jagat brahman is the only abhinna
> >>> > nimittOpadAna kAraNa hence not mithyA but from its causal form satya
> >>> only.
> >>> > The other party says brahman is the adhishtAnam of this jagat but for
> >>> the
> >>> > jagat brahman is mere vivartOpadAna kAraNa and mAya is the pariNAmi
> >>> > kAraNa.  Since there is no svagata bheda we cannot say jagat  is
> >>> brahman
> >>> > and jagat is mithyA only because it is ever changing whereas brahman
> is
> >>> > nirvikAri and nirvishesha.  I think with regard to all these issues
> we
> >>> have
> >>> > already talked a lot and finally after some mutual agreements and
> >>> > disagrements we stuck at one point. i.e. What would be the jnAni's
> >>> drushti
> >>> > of this jagat after realizing his adviteeya svarUpa.  Whether he look
> >>> at
> >>> > the jagat as mithyA or satya??  Since his drushti / realization is
> what
> >>> > shruti and AcharyOpadesha based.  We have to see what shrtuti and
> >>> > bhagavatpAda offer with regard to this.  It is true that for the
> >>> ajnAni-s
> >>> > like me/us it is not possible to determine what exactly is the
> jnAni's
> >>> > hrudaya spandana, atleast from the shruti and bhAshya reference we
> can
> >>> try
> >>> > to understand what would be the perception of jnAni with regard to
> this
> >>> > jagat.  Whether this jagat is satya or mithya.
> >>> >
> >>> > First of all, before quoting the shruti and bhAshyakAra, I would like
> >>> to
> >>> > quote couple of references from my parama guruji Sri SSS from one of
> >>> his
> >>> > articles published in 2014 from adhyAtma prakAsha kAryAlaya in
> monthly
> >>> > magazine adhyAtma prakAsha and another one from his minor work
> 'brahma
> >>> > vidyA'.  I am just reproducing the first one i.e. article in adhyAtma
> >>> > prakAsha  as it is written in Kannada  :
> >>> >
> >>> > // quote //
> >>> >
> >>> > haagaadare tattvajnAnavAdamelAdarU prapanchavu mithyeyendu tOruvudO
> >>> illavO
> >>> > ??  Aga mAtra idu mithyeyaagi tOralu kAraNavenu??  endu yaaraadaru
> >>> shankisa
> >>> > bahudu.  idakke uttaravenendare, nijavaagi yaavaagalu prapanchavu
> >>> > mithyavendu kaaNisuvude illa.  ekendare Atmanannu bittare
> >>> prapanchavembudu
> >>> > bereyaagi iruvudilla.  ajnAnigaLige avara paramAtma svarUpavu
> tiLiyadu.
> >>> > Addarinda avaru bhinabhinnaraagiruva jeevarugaLannu alli avarugaLu
> >>> > vyavaharisuttiruva prapanchavannu kaaNuttiruttaare.  Adare avaru
> >>> > AtmasAkshAtkAravannu padedare " idellavu Atmane" emba shrutiya
> >>> arthavannu
> >>> > managANuttaare.  Aga avarige prapanchavu Atmane Agi biduvudarinda adu
> >>> > paramasatyavaagi biduttade.
> >>> >
> >>> > Addarinda "jagattu mithyeye?? "?  emba prashnege katta kadeya
> uttaravu
> >>> > yaavadaayitu??  adu taaniruva paramArtha rUpadalli Atmane, brahmave.
> >>> > Addarinda adu nijavaagiye satyavaagide hIge nOdidare yaavadondU
> >>> mithyave
> >>> > alla.  ajnAnigaLige tOruttiruva brahma bhinnavaada jagattembudu
> illave
> >>> > illa; Addarinda adannu satyavendaagali, mithyavendaagali
> >>> vingadisuvudakke
> >>> > kaaraNavilla.  jagattendaadaru kareyiri, brahmavendaadaru kareyiri;
> >>> iruvudu
> >>> > Onde Ondu adviteeyavAda paramArtha satyavu.  adakkinta bereyaagi
> >>> yaavadondU
> >>> > iruvade illa.
> >>> >
> >>> > // unquote //
> >>> >
> >>> > Those who can read and understand Kannada, above two paragraphs are
> >>> > self-explanatory.  And those who donot know Kannada the gist of above
> >>> > observation of Sri SSS is about  jnAni's perception of jagat after
> the
> >>> > svarUpa jnana.  Sri SSS poses a question here : After realization
> >>> whether
> >>> > this jagat become mithyA for the jnAni??  And why this jagat would
> >>> become
> >>> > mithyA for the jnAni only after realization??  For this Sri SSS
> >>> clarifies :
> >>> > THERE IS NOTHING LIKE MITHYA PRAPANCHA AT ANY POINT OF TIME  because
> >>> > prapancha (jagat) does not deviate from brahman and does not exist
> >>> apart
> >>> > from brahman.  Only ajnAni-s due to their parichinna jnana would see
> >>> the
> >>> > various jeeva-s and manifold objects and transactions.  When they
> >>> realize
> >>> > they would come to know that 'all this is Atman only'.  Therefore,
> Sri
> >>> SSS
> >>> > in second pyara concludes :  For the question : is this jagat
> >>> mithyA??  The
> >>> > ultimate answer is :  that (jagat) in its sadrUpa (paramArtha rUpa)
> >>> Atman
> >>> > only brahman only.  Therefore this (jagat) is REAL, FOR THAT MATTER
> >>> THERE
> >>> > IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE CALLED  'MITHYA'.  For the ajnAni-s this jagat
> >>> would
> >>> > appear bhinna from brahman (separate from brahman), that which does
> not
> >>> > exist at all.  Therefore no need for exercise like tattvAnyatvAbhyAm
> >>> for
> >>> > this avidyA kalpita jagat.  Whether you call this jagat or brahman
> >>> what is
> >>> > there is ONLY one and that is paramArtha satya there exists nothing
> >>> apart
> >>> > from it.
> >>> >
> >>> > And Sri SSS further clarifies in brahma vidye (again a Kannada book)
> at
> >>> > the end quotes one shruti vAkya : brahma dAshA brahma dAsA
> brahmaiveme
> >>> > kitavAH and advises that realization of this universal truth
> >>> (sarvatrika
> >>> > satya) is the parama purushArtha jnana, janma sAphalya jnana.  Those
> >>> who
> >>> > attain this jnana is dvija Sri SSS quotes manu here.
> >>> >
> >>> > And in his various prakaraNa works like jeevanta vedAnta, anubhava
> >>> > paryanta vedAnta, mAndUkya rahasya vivruttiH, shAnkara vedAnta,
> >>> > Misconceptions about shankara vedAnta etc.  Sri SSS deals with this
> >>> subject
> >>> > and clarifies that sarvAtmakatvaM is what is advocated in shankara's
> >>> > Advaita vedAnta and jagan mithyatvaM is not an essential criterial to
> >>> > arrive this truth.
> >>> >
> >>> > In the next part we shall look into the shruti and shankara bhAshya (
> >>> > which I have already covered in my previous mails) to this effect.
> >>> >
> >>> > Hari Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> >>> > bhaskar
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >
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