Bhaskar YR bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com
Thu May 5 05:27:12 CDT 2016

praNAms Sri Sati Shankar prabhuji
hare Krishna

Thanks for quoting from Rigveda, not only in veda in vedAnta bhAga as well it has been insisted that this jagat is nothing but brahman but brahman at the same time nirvikAri and nirvishesha in its svarUpa.  yenAshrutaM shrutaM bhavatyamataM mataM avijnAtaM vijnAtaM, edam sarvaM yadayamAtma, sarvaM khalvidaM brahma tajjalAn, brahmaivedaM amrutaM purastAt, satyanchAnrutancha satyamabhavat yadidaM kiMcha etc. etc. crying at the top of its voice that this jagat is brahma and nothing else, clarifies shankara in sUtra bhAshya.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!

From: Sati Shankar [mailto:studiesggroup at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:13 PM
To: Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] JAGAT MITHYATVAM IN ADVAITA - A CONCLUSION - part -1

I feel lucky having joined this group, at least I reached a place where some meaningful discussion is going on.
Many of the variations which we encounter are due to semantics, mithyA is never an illusion nor "False" as we encounter in textbook and general texts. When I started studying, found AchArya Shankar himself has said he had been saying what has been already there and this led me go backward right to Rig Veda.and  hence started reconsidering most of the core as a facet of continuity. same applies to unity and duality also.
I can not be comprehensive here is a short note:
Let us consider our own tradition;
In our Sanatan tradition,  whatever we perceive, the form and name it, nAma -  rUpa, is realised in our tradition as vishvam ekam, (RV. 3.54.8), the many are the One  and the One that is manifold, vishvam satyam, (RV. 2.24.12); the manifold truth,and vishvam .....garbham (RV. 10.121.7). therefore, if asked, "Is He One or many?", our tradition says,"One and many", The general principle is ,the devah is every where of one and the same form. (RV.8.11.8)., that is, "Even as he seems, so is he named" (RV. 5.44.6)., the way being anurUpah, pratirUpah, (JBU.I.27). So how can there be a part satyam and  an other mithyA? Here, He, PrajApati, manifests in "Himself", so this universe, idam sarvam, pecieved according to anurUpam, pratirUpam,to be declared " One and many". It is the semantic mis-marriage that the translation of the NasadIya Sukta, the Manifestation Hymn, as called the "Creation Hymn", which signifies the error interpretation and naming by the Indologists had in their minds the "Creationist presuppositions" of Christianity. Therefore, using the "God" for the  "Self. Manifested", idam sarvam, is like limiting Him and equally makes "theology" a term unfit to proceed for brahma jijnAsA of our tradition.PrajApti, thus manifested in Himself, idam sarvam,selforganizes in dharma by his own  multifarious sva-bhAva, such that in Him are all beings, idam sarvam,- manas, prAnah, nAma-rUpa, are within, as coincident; " sent by Him onto him, and born of Him into him, it is in Him that all this universe is stabilised, that is how our tradition invokes for shAnti, ... sarve devAh shAntih, nakshatrh shAntih, vanaspatayah shantih.....aum shAntih, shAntih, shAntih... to keep the equilibrium  in idam sarvam intact, for welfare of the cosmos. Our scriptures teach,"idam sarvam brahm" and therefore, being a manifestation within,   Aham brahmAsmi  since we ,aikik and samyaka are this "idam sarvam", well connected in such a way that a chance deviation at any level, be it microcosm or macrocosm, does not leave unaffected within. When "idam sarvam brahmn" how can there be something called mithyA?

So is the observation by this ignorant.
 Sati Shankar.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<mailto:advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>> wrote:
Hare Krishna

First of all my heartfelt praNAms to all prabhuji-s who have patiently participated in this discussion and shared their thoughts.  After exchanging more than 200 mails on this topic, as I promised I am writing down my final thoughts on it.  I must say here by no means it is 'the' conclusion in Advaita saMpradAya but shared thoughts do have the base in  shankara bhAshya and shruti.   And more importantly Sri SSS's works too somewhere advocated this same view point.  From all these discussion, we can flatly conclude that there is no difference of opinion on brahmaikatvaM, satyatvaM, nirvisheshatvaM etc.,  there is no difference of opinion on availability of this jagat in vyavahAra to each and every one, hence jagat astitvaM has been accepted as vyavahArika satta  and again there is no difference of opinion about jeeva svarUpa is ultimately brahman only (jeevO brahmaiva na apara) in these discussions.  Problem starts for us  when one party say for the jagat brahman is the only abhinna nimittOpadAna kAraNa hence not mithyA but from its causal form satya only.  The other party says brahman is the adhishtAnam of this jagat but for the jagat brahman is mere vivartOpadAna kAraNa and mAya is the pariNAmi kAraNa.  Since there is no svagata bheda we cannot say jagat  is brahman  and jagat is mithyA only because it is ever changing whereas brahman is nirvikAri and nirvishesha.  I think with regard to all these issues we have already talked a lot and finally after some mutual agreements and disagrements we stuck at one point. i.e. What would be the jnAni's drushti of this jagat after realizing his adviteeya svarUpa.  Whether he look at the jagat as mithyA or satya??  Since his drushti / realization is what shruti and AcharyOpadesha based.  We have to see what shrtuti and bhagavatpAda offer with regard to this.  It is true that for the ajnAni-s like me/us it is not possible to determine what exactly is the jnAni's hrudaya spandana, atleast from the shruti and bhAshya reference we can try to understand what would be the perception of jnAni with regard to this jagat.  Whether this jagat is satya or mithya.

First of all, before quoting the shruti and bhAshyakAra, I would like to quote couple of references from my parama guruji Sri SSS from one of his articles published in 2014 from adhyAtma prakAsha kAryAlaya in monthly magazine adhyAtma prakAsha and another one from his minor work 'brahma vidyA'.  I am just reproducing the first one i.e. article in adhyAtma prakAsha  as it is written in Kannada  :

// quote //

haagaadare tattvajnAnavAdamelAdarU prapanchavu mithyeyendu tOruvudO illavO ??  Aga mAtra idu mithyeyaagi tOralu kAraNavenu??  endu yaaraadaru shankisa bahudu.  idakke uttaravenendare, nijavaagi yaavaagalu prapanchavu mithyavendu kaaNisuvude illa.  ekendare Atmanannu bittare prapanchavembudu bereyaagi iruvudilla.  ajnAnigaLige avara paramAtma svarUpavu tiLiyadu.  Addarinda avaru bhinabhinnaraagiruva jeevarugaLannu alli avarugaLu vyavaharisuttiruva prapanchavannu kaaNuttiruttaare.  Adare avaru AtmasAkshAtkAravannu padedare " idellavu Atmane" emba shrutiya arthavannu managANuttaare.  Aga avarige prapanchavu Atmane Agi biduvudarinda adu paramasatyavaagi biduttade.

Addarinda "jagattu mithyeye?? "?  emba prashnege katta kadeya uttaravu yaavadaayitu??  adu taaniruva paramArtha rUpadalli Atmane, brahmave.  Addarinda adu nijavaagiye satyavaagide hIge nOdidare yaavadondU mithyave alla.  ajnAnigaLige tOruttiruva brahma bhinnavaada jagattembudu illave illa; Addarinda adannu satyavendaagali, mithyavendaagali vingadisuvudakke kaaraNavilla.  jagattendaadaru kareyiri, brahmavendaadaru kareyiri; iruvudu Onde Ondu adviteeyavAda paramArtha satyavu.  adakkinta bereyaagi yaavadondU iruvade illa.

// unquote //

Those who can read and understand Kannada, above two paragraphs are self-explanatory.  And those who donot know Kannada the gist of above observation of Sri SSS is about  jnAni's perception of jagat after the svarUpa jnana.  Sri SSS poses a question here : After realization whether this jagat become mithyA for the jnAni??  And why this jagat would become mithyA for the jnAni only after realization??  For this Sri SSS clarifies : THERE IS NOTHING LIKE MITHYA PRAPANCHA AT ANY POINT OF TIME  because prapancha (jagat) does not deviate from brahman and does not exist apart from brahman.  Only ajnAni-s due to their parichinna jnana would see the various jeeva-s and manifold objects and transactions.  When they realize they would come to know that 'all this is Atman only'.  Therefore, Sri SSS in second pyara concludes :  For the question : is this jagat mithyA??  The ultimate answer is :  that (jagat) in its sadrUpa (paramArtha rUpa) Atman only brahman only.  Therefore this (jagat) is REAL, FOR THAT MATTER THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE CALLED  'MITHYA'.  For the ajnAni-s this jagat would appear bhinna from brahman (separate from brahman), that which does not exist at all.  Therefore no need for exercise like tattvAnyatvAbhyAm for this avidyA kalpita jagat.  Whether you call this jagat or brahman what is there is ONLY one and that is paramArtha satya there exists nothing apart from it.

And Sri SSS further clarifies in brahma vidye (again a Kannada book) at the end quotes one shruti vAkya : brahma dAshA brahma dAsA brahmaiveme kitavAH and advises that realization of this universal truth (sarvatrika satya) is the parama purushArtha jnana, janma sAphalya jnana.  Those who attain this jnana is dvija Sri SSS quotes manu here.

And in his various prakaraNa works like jeevanta vedAnta, anubhava paryanta vedAnta, mAndUkya rahasya vivruttiH, shAnkara vedAnta, Misconceptions about shankara vedAnta etc.  Sri SSS deals with this subject and clarifies that sarvAtmakatvaM is what is advocated in shankara's Advaita vedAnta and jagan mithyatvaM is not an essential criterial to arrive this truth.

In the next part we shall look into the shruti and shankara bhAshya ( which I have already covered in my previous mails) to this effect.

Hari Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

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