[Advaita-l] Shankara and DrishTi-SrishTi vAda - eka jeeva vaada

[H S Chandramouli]

The talks can be downloaded from following link

<< https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7cgw5m9kew41j/Vichara_sagaram >>

I presume the link is still active.

Regards

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 5:33 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> For those interested further on the subject of Drishti Srishti vAda,  Sri
> Paramarthananda Swamiji has covered it exhaustively and exclusively in
> talks nos 72 to 74 on Vichara Sagara.
>
> For information.
>
> Regards
>
> On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Sadaji,
>> Thank you so much for sharing your conversation with Swamiji. I believe
>> DSV
>> does imply eka jIva vAda. However what that eka jIva is, is the crux here.
>>
>> My understanding of this vAda is that it is the one kAraNa sharIra that
>> "creates" the world as it were. It is not what the vjnAna vAdi considers
>> as
>> the mind that is the jagat kartA.
>>
>> However, the appearance of several jIvAs  is also a product of that one
>> kAraNa sharIra only. Hence, my understanding is that it is that kAraNa
>> sharIra limited chaitanyam that is the eka jIva in Drishti Srishti vAda.
>>
>> I remember Swamiji saying this (that it is the kAraNa sharIra that is the
>> srishti kartA, not the mind) when introducing drishti srishti in
>> Vicharasagara.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Venkatraghavan
>> On 7 May 2016 11:58 a.m., "kuntimaddi sadananda" <
>> kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > PraNAms
>> >
>> > The discussion is shifting from DSV - SDV to Ekajeeva vaada vs aneka
>> jeeva
>> > vaada, and this topic was discussed by Shree Subbuji in the past. At
>> that
>> > time I had some discussions with Swami Paramarthanandaji on this topic.
>> I
>> > am re-posting my understanding based on that discussion with Swamiji.
>> >
>> > Related to the Ekajeeva vaaada vs aneka jeeva vaada - I think Shree
>> > Bhaskarji is right, this time!
>> >
>> > Here is my understanding:
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Eka jiiva vaada
>> >
>> > First – an acknowledgement – this current writing is prompted by the
>> posts
>> > on creation and cognition by local tiny jiiva based on Bhagavatam
>> (Uddhava
>> > Geeta) sloka, with many indirect supportive teachings by Shree Subbuji.
>> .
>> > Yesterday, I had a chance to discuss this issue with Shree Swami
>> > Paramarthanandaji about the jest of the eka-jiiva vaada. Since Swamiji
>> is
>> > not a member of any list, I would paraphrase this write-up as my
>> > understanding of what Swamiji discussed. Needless to say, that it is
>> left
>> > to the reader to accept or reject the statements.
>> > There was a consideration that creation involves only one jiiva, the
>> > subject and the other entities constituting the world forming the
>> objects
>> > of his cognition. Ignorance of that jiiva involves parichchinnatvam or
>> > notion of limitation that I am only this body, mind and intellect, while
>> > the rest of the creation constitutes objects of his cognition. As usual,
>> > samsaara or suffering comes by giving absolute reality to the cognized
>> > world of plurality. Teaching to that jiiva is that whatever that is
>> > cognized is not really real but mithyaa; since whatever cognized is
>> inert
>> > and there cannot be any real inert entities since consciousness is
>> infinite
>> > – prajnaanam brahma.
>> >
>> > Here we need to recognize three aspects that are involved in this model;
>> > a) creation of plurality b) cognition of that plurality by senses c)
>> > teaching to that jiiva that any cognized entity is not real.
>> Realization,
>> > as usual, involves recognition that I am Brahman, and anything else is
>> > naama rupa mithyaa, and I am the substratum even for the mithyaa world
>> of
>> > plurality.
>> >
>> > There are several concerns and questions that arise from this model.
>> Some
>> > of them, were discussed in the past. These include a) jiiva creating the
>> > world of plurality and then cognizing what he has created, and assuming
>> > that the world of plurality that is cognized in real. To that jiiva
>> there
>> > is a teaching that it is not real but mithyaa.
>> >
>> > 1) First concern that comes up is if he is the creator and then
>> cognizing
>> > the creation, the teaching does not differ from vijnaana vaada of
>> Buddhism.
>> >
>> > 2) Second concern is if he is the creator of the whole universe, he must
>> > be sarva jnana or all knower, since creation requires the whole
>> knowledge
>> > of creation. He has to create from himself – that is he has to be
>> abhinna
>> > nimitta upaadana kaaraNa of the universe – that is both material and
>> > intelligent cause for the universe. If so he is taking the role of
>> Iswara
>> > of that creation while being a local tiny jiiva.
>> >
>> > 3) Being the material cause also, he is the adhiShTaanam of the universe
>> > too – here we are not referring to sat chit ananda swaruupa aatma but
>> eka
>> > jiiva of that creation since in this model he is the creator.
>> >
>> > 4) Another concern is creation should take place after he became a tiny
>> > jiiva since the model involves the creation and cognition by the tiny
>> jiiva
>> > who has to be pre-existing before creation starts.
>> >
>> > 5) The item 4 leads to anyonya aashraya dosha or mutual dependency,
>> like A
>> > depends on B and B depends of A – This is because the jiiva has to be
>> > created first for him to create the rest that includes in BMI which is
>> part
>> > of cognized world. Jiiva hood itself is due to identification with
>> upAdhis,
>> > BMI, as I am this. Thus he creates himself to create the rest including
>> his
>> > BMI for him to cognize.
>> >
>> > 6) He must have become ignorant after he created the universe, that
>> makes
>> > the ignorance to have beginning. Knowledgeable person cannot become
>> > ignorant. If he becomes, then there is no question of moksha for him
>> since
>> > he can always become ignorant even after gaining knowledge. It is an
>> > eternal struggle.
>> >
>> > 7) Next important concern is who the teacher for this single jiiva is.
>> > Non-jiiva cannot teach and there is no other jiiva, even for him to
>> realize
>> > and then teach.
>> >
>> > I recognize some of the concerns are interdependent but I am only
>> > highlighting them to recognize the problems that one encounters. The
>> basic
>> > problem is statement that he creates and then cognizes.
>> >
>> > Because of the limited time encounter, Swamiji answered briefly my
>> > concerns grasping the essence of them. He said in the deep sleep state
>> > there is only kaaraNa shariira which is essentially ignorance of all
>> > duality as we discussed in the series – who slept well?. The ignorance
>> > being undifferentiated, since there is no duality, the ignorance at both
>> > individual level and collective level is one homogenous ignorance. From
>> the
>> > collective point it is called maayaa, which is nothing but parameswara
>> > Shakti. Hence in Madukya aagama prakarana the kaaraNa state is also
>> defined
>> > from the macro scale as Iswara. Creation is by that Iswara and not by
>> the
>> > local mind of the jiiva, even in the eka jiiva vaada – the reason, he
>> said,
>> > is that even the local mind has to be created. We are back to the
>> original
>> > theory that creation is not by the local jiiva but by Iswara who is
>> > sarvajna and sarva Shaktimaan.
>> >
>> > Eka jiiva comes from the point that there is only one subject from his
>> > perspective and everything he cognizes is object of his perception. The
>> > teaching he receives is also via his sense perception and his cognition
>> and
>> > therefore objectifiable entity. To the question that who is the teacher
>> > then, he just smiled and says your guess is as good as mine. He
>> > categorically denied that it is not that local jiiva creates and then
>> > cognizes since the cognitive instruments need to be created too. He
>> agreed
>> > that if we accept creation and then cognition by that jiiva, then it
>> will
>> > not be different from vijnana vaada of Buddhism.
>> >
>> > I left him since there were others in line seeking his attention.
>> > .
>> > With prostrations to Shree Swamiji for educating me on this topic.
>> >
>> > Hari Om!
>> > Sadananda
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>
>> For assistance, contact:
>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>
>
>