[Advaita-l] Ishvara-authored Srishti avidyākrta - Says Shankara

Venkatesh Murthy (वेङ्कटेशः सीतारामार्यपुत्रः) vmurthy36 at gmail.com
Fri May 27 01:40:57 CDT 2016


After Jnana the Jnani will see the world. This cannot be rope snake
example because after knowing snake is false there is no snake seen.
This is one question I had. If world will not disappear can we say it
is like Clay pot example? After knowing Pot is Clay only we will still
be seeing Pot. Then even after Moksha also the Clay and Pot will be
seen. That means in Moksha also there is Brahman and Nama Rupa Jagat.
It will always be there. The Ultimate Reality will be Brahman with
Nama Rupa Jagat. How is this possible?

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Namaste Śrī Subramanian jī,
> Śrī Vidyārāṇya Svāmī in Panchadaśī says that after attaining Jṇāna
> sāṁsāra does not disappear. This is because ajṇāna is opposite of jṇāna,
> mithyā is not opposite of jṇāna and hence it does not get negated even
> after attaining jṇāna.
> It is also true that in all examples, vachyārtha may be of dual nature, but
> laxyārtha is non-duality only. Or any taught to point to Brahman has to be
> taken in right context. An example is tat-tvam-asi.
> It is said that sharīra is a sādhana. Hence undue importance should not be
> given. Sādhana should not become sādhya.
> Same is the case with other things like food, which is a medicine
> (auśadha) to treat a disease (roga) named hunger (bhukha).
> I personally feel that for explaining SDV, snake-rope analogy is a better
> example.
> OM
> Sujal Upadhyay
> "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> He who has faith has all
> He who lacks faith, lacks all
> It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> 2016-05-26 12:32 GMT+05:30 V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>:
>> Here is a post that is well articulated on the topic from the Advaitin
>> forum:
>> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/advaitin/conversations/messages/46420
>> Namaste Sri Kalyan Ji
>> Here are some points to consider.
>> 1. Sṛṣṭi is regarded as taṭastha-lakṣaṇa of Brahman - the only purpose of
>> every discussion about sṛṣṭi in śrūti is only to point to Brahman as its
>> substratum, and not to discuss the relative reality of sṛṣṭi at all. This
>> is the settled position of Śaṅkara in all his commentaries. The common
>> example for taṭastha-lakṣaṇa is the crow, which is incidentally perching on
>> the house, being used to point to the house. Now, how does it matter
>> whether the crow is a real crow or a wooden crow, a fake one? And would we
>> try to classify the person who pointed to the crow only as an indicator to
>> identity the house, as a realist just because he used a real crow to point
>> to the house? Śaṅkara should only be viewed as an absolutist, if anything -
>> since his pakṣa is that the only realty is non-dual and absolute, the
>> pāramārthika. He does not use words such as vyāvahārka or prātibhāsika as
>> regards reality in his commentaries.
>> Śaṅkara has used clay-pot, and rope-snake examples, only with a view to
>> point to the substratum, the clay and the rope, respectively; to try and
>> classify him as an idealist or a realist based on the example he is using
>> and try and create a system around his examples is an unwarranted extension
>> akin to calling the one who used a real crow to point to house as a
>> realist.
>> Swami Dayananda used to say that these are problems created by people when
>> they try to make a system out of a prakriyā, a model used to in teaching.
>> And Swami Paramarthananda says "what Śaṅkara has not said is as important
>> as what Śaṅkara has said".
>> 2. The second point I would like discuss is whether the world is regarded
>> as objective reality or subjective reality. Śruti uses clay-pot,
>> gold-ornament, and nail-cutter and iron examples to explain sṛṣṭi. It does
>> not use rajju-sarpa example. Śaṅkara uses rope-snake example because it is
>> easier to explain certain aspects of Advaita through that example - such as
>> jñānāt kaivalyam. In the brahma-sūtra-bhāṣya and other places, Śaṅkara
>> explains continuation of the body for a jñāni is equal to the momentum of
>> an arrow shot from a bow - this is the position of śrūti also as in Chān Up
>> 6.14.2 - tasya tāvadeva ciram". Unlike a rope-jñāni for whom the snake
>> disappears for good, we do not see the world disappearing for a
>> brahma-jñāni, though both are adhyastha. The world continues for a
>> brahma-jñāni, like the pot continues despite the knowledge its truth as
>> clay. So, my assimilation of the reality of the world, as per śrūti and
>> Śaṅkara, is similar to clay-pot and not rope-snake, in others words, world
>> is objective reality and not subjective reality. Such a position reconciles
>> with so many things - the fact that a jñāni is the best among bhaktas, and
>> that he remains in action though he has nothing to achieve, and that avidyā
>> is the cause of samsāra etc.
>> Bottom line - tātparya of śruti in discussing sṛṣṭi, and the tātparya of
>> clay-pot, rope-snake and such examples are all to only point to the
>> substratum; by extending them beyond this intended purpose, we are
>> committing the mistake of converting a prakriyā, a teaching model, into a
>>  system. This should be avoided.
>> hariḥ om
>> Śuka
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