[Advaita-l] Supremacy of Shiva over Vishnu

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

Last month I was also arguing with you Western scholars cannot be
correct because -

On Tuesday 2 August 2016, Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> No, vedic karma requires adhikaritvam, but please do not assume > adhikaritvam with superiority, and do not extend that superiority as > conferring "true" knowledge as opposed to "bookish" knowledge. >
Your advice should be to Western scholars also. They should not assume
superiority just because they are from rich countries and fair complexion.

Westerner Roth has said Sayana was ritualistic and he could not give proper
meaning for Vedic mantras. How can Roth with no Upanayana Samskara know
more about Vedas than Sayana? Is it possible in this Mleccha Janma for Roth
to know more than Brahmin Sayana about Vedas? Never.

Same Logic will apply here. How can the Mleccha Paul Hacker without
Upanayana Samskara have any authority to study and understand Adi
Sankara's Bhashya and comment he was Vaishnava. This Mleccha Paul
hacker can never understand Adi Sankara Bhashyas because he has not
studied it under a Guru in the Sampradaya.

He can publish papers and get appreciation in Western circles but in
Sringeri circles he will get a big Zero.

They say Half Knowledge is dangerous. These Western scholars have only
Half knowledge because they study in very unorthodox manner. Who knows
how they study? They give conclusions with this Half knowledge and
confuse everybody.

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Well put. The motive of academic research and vedic teaching is completely
> different. The latter is primarily geared towards imparting jnAna so that
> students can realise moksha. Therefore it is vital that the core knowledge
> that leads to moksha is preserved in an undisturbed fashion. Sure, there
> will be innovation in teaching methodologies, models, examples etc., to
> cater to different student types and changing times but the core message -
> You are that Brahman - will be fundamentally retained.
>
> The incentive of academic research on Vedanta is completely different. The
> writer is oriented towards demonstrating his individual contribution to the
> body of knowledge. The greater the innovation he demonstrates, as long as
> there is a credible justification, the greater is the reward - academic
> papers, professorial positions etc. No academic is working with the belief
> or intention that his research effort is going to give himself moksha, let
> alone others. Therefore there is no need to be in line with sampradAya for
> him.
>
> Using that work as moksha shAstra, at best is a complete waste of time.
> Worse, it may lead one to lose shraddha in shAstra and the guru, which is a
> major obstacle on the path to moksha.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On 3 Sep 2016 4:40 p.m., "Sanju Nath" <sanjivendra at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The analogy of computers, etc also relies on standing on the shoulders of
>> previous scientists.  There is a parampara of first learning physics,
>> engineering, software, etc from teachers for many years before one is
>> competent enough to further inventions.
>>
>> Same or more important is the case of understand Vedic literature.  This
>> sampradya starts in Bharat for many milleniums.  The issue with western
>> thinkers is that they trace or attribute very rarely (other than a
>> perfunctory list of attributions whose value is secondary to their
>> "original" thinking).  Who is the guru, etc of Paul Hacker, other Western
>> thinkers doesn't matter whereas Indian tradition dismisses those who learn
>> the Vedas outside the guru parampara.
>>
>> Strange how topsy-turvy the learning is in the West:  science requires a
>> parampara, but Vedas - all free to study and attack.  Science has succeeded
>> in the west because of the parampara of knowledge being learned and handed
>> down by successive scientists, and not everyone doing their own thing, as
>> attempted by them regarding Vedas , puranas, itihaas, smritis, sutras.
>>
>> Sanju
>>
>> > On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:09 AM, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Correcting the typo in the sentence below: One is worldly knowledge,
>> aparA
>> > vidyA, whose knowledge is derived from pratyaksha pramANa and the other
>> is
>> > spiritual knowledge, *parA* vidyA, which depends on shruti pramANa.
>> >
>> >> On 3 Sep 2016 7:55 a.m., "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Please don't paint this as prejudice of western views.
>> >>
>> >> The analogy of acceptance of western views and inventions such as
>> > computers etc but non acceptance of western views in matters of Vedanta
>> is
>> > not appropriate here as we are talking of two different spheres of
>> > knowledge. One is worldly knowledge, aparA vidyA, whose knowledge is
>> > derived from pratyaksha pramANa and the other is spiritual knowledge,
>> aparA
>> > vidyA, which depends on shruti pramANa. To understand what shruti pramANa
>> > has to say, one needs to be able to interpret it correctly and for this
>> one
>> > needs a sampradAya guru.
>> >>
>> >> Even in parA vidyA, no one is dismissing *all* the views of *all*
>> > scholars, be they western or otherwise, as foolish. Only those that
>> choose
>> > to opine on matters of para vidyA by ignoring tradition are called thus -
>> > by Shankaracharya.
>> >>
>> >> On the other side of the equation, coming to aparA vidyA, to dismiss all
>> > traditional accounts as hagiographies devoid of historical merit is
>> > throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Venkatraghavan
>> >>
>> >> On 3 Sep 2016 5:30 a.m., "D Gayatri via Advaita-l" <
>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I find it intriguing that people have no problems using western
>> > technology
>> >>> and inventions like computers, internet etc. and at the same time the
>> > very
>> >>> same people dismiss all western scholars as fools! Just as any other
>> >>> scholars, the arguments of western scholars have their own merits and
>> >>> demerits, but IMHO, to dismiss the entire class of western scholars as
>> >>> fools, smacks of intellectual arrogance.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Friday, 2 September 2016, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
>> >>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
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-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh