[Advaita-l] is this jagat mithyA ?? Sri SSS

[V Subrahmanian]

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste
>
> So long as you continue to brush aside Adhikari Bheda there will be all
> these useless arguments. In DSV there is no Vyavahara. There is only Suddha
> Brahman and there is Praatibhaasika Dream like reality. Therefore if you
> say Ishwara Srushti it is Dream Srushti only. Tell me how different it will
> be if it is Jeeva Srushti? In your dream if you see mountains and seas will
> you say Ishwara made them or will you say it is your imagination?


In BSB 3.2.4 Shankara says that in the dream, the objects are all created
by the jiva only. And states a difference between the jiva's creation in
dream and the objects of the waking. Also, he says: Even the creation of
the world of waking is not ultimately real, as has been established in BSB
2.1.14 that the entire world is māyāmātram.

श्रुत्यन्तरे ‘स्वयं विहत्य स्वयं निर्माय स्वेन भासा स्वेन ज्योतिषा
प्रस्वपिति’ (बृ. उ. ४ । ३ । ९)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=4&id=BR_C04_S03_V09&hl=%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AF%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A8%20%E0%A4%AD%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A8%20%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF>
 इति जीवव्यापारश्रवणात् ; इहापि ‘य एष सुप्तेषुजागर्ति’ (क. उ. २ । २ । ८)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Kathaka?page=2&id=Ka_C02_S02_V08&hl=%E0%A4%AF%20%E0%A4%8F%E0%A4%B7%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B7%E0%A5%81%20%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF>
 इति प्रसिद्धानुवादाज्जीव एवायं कामानां निर्माता सङ्कीर्त्यते ; तस्य तु
वाक्यशेषेण ‘तदेव शुक्रं तद्ब्रह्म’ इति जीवभावं व्यावर्त्य ब्रह्मभाव
उपदिश्यते — ‘तत्त्वमसि’ (छा. उ. ६ । ९ । ४)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Chandogya?page=6&id=Ch_C06_S09_V04&hl=%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%BF>
 इत्यादिवत् — इति न ब्रह्मप्रकरणं विरुध्यते । न चास्माभिः स्वप्नेऽपि
प्राज्ञव्यापारः प्रतिषिध्यते, तस्य सर्वेश्वरत्वात्
सर्वास्वप्यवस्थास्वधिष्ठातृत्वोपपत्तेः ; पारमार्थिकस्तुनायं सन्ध्याश्रयः
सर्गः वियदादिसर्गवत् — इत्येतावत्प्रतिपाद्यते ; न च
वियदादिसर्गस्याप्यात्यन्तिकं सत्यत्वमस्ति ; प्रतिपादितं हि ‘
तदनन्यत्वमारम्भणशब्दादिभ्यः’ (ब्र. सू. २ । १ । १४)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/BS?page=2&id=BS_C02_S01_V14&hl=%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AD%E0%A4%A3%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AD%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%83>
इत्यत्र समस्तस्य प्रपञ्चस्य मायामात्रत्वम् । प्राक् तु ब्रह्मात्मत्वदर्शनात्
 वियदादिप्रपञ्चो व्यवस्थितरूपो भवति ; सन्ध्याश्रयस्तु प्रपञ्चः प्रतिदिनं
बाध्यते — इत्यतो वैशेषिकमिदं सन्ध्यस्यमायामात्रत्वमुदितम् ॥ ४ ॥

regards
vs


> If you
> say Ishwara creates your dream objects the Dvaitis will embrace you like a
> brother. They like it
>
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 6:02 PM, Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > praNAms
> > Hare Krishna
> >
> > And this thread will not be completed if we don’t see the ‘difference’
> > between jeeva and Ishwara in srushti kArya / prakriya.  Though jeeva is
> > brahmaiva na aparaH and there is only one Chaitanya one may conveniently
> > say when we say jeeva srushti it is nothing but brahma srushti only.  If
> > that is what their explanation then there is no need to exclude Ishwara
> and
> > include jeeva in srushti prakriya and ask silly questions like : why
> > Ishwara does the srushti, what for he does the srushti when he himself is
> > aaptakAma, nitya trupta etc. And it has to be noted that though jeeva is
> > brahmaiva, in the vyavahAra jagat, jeeva is NOT equal to brahma, he is
> mere
> > ‘shAreeri’ only .  bhAshyakAra in 2nd adhyAya adhikaraNa clearly makes
> the
> > distinction between shAreeri jeeva and parameshwara and clearly says
> > shAreeri or saMsAri jeeva is not the creator of jagat.  Because the
> > socalled jeeva is katru and bhOktru and he is the sufferer here we cannot
> > put-forth the argument like jeeva is nothing but brahman hence jeeva has
> > been defined as srushti karta.  NA…that is not the way bhAshyakAra
> explains
> > the srushti prakriya.  In the creation process, bhAshyakAra explicitly
> > excludes jeeva attributes the creation to ONLY Ishwara and insists
> > attributing the srushti to brahma is VEDANTA MARYAADA.  Just see the
> > bhAshyavAkya-s where bhAshyakAra pushing aside the jeeva from this
> srushti
> > kArya.  Na cha giri nadee samudrAdishu nAnAvidheshu nAmarUpeshu
> > ‘ANEESHVARASYA JEEVASYA’ vyAkaraNa sAmarthyaM asti.  And see the other
> > bhAshya vAkya where bhAshyakAra denies the srushti kriya to even siddha
> > purusha-s :  jagat utpaadi vyApAraM varjayitvA anyadaNimAdyAtmakaM
> > IshvaryaM muktANAm bhavituM arhati..then who is capable of doing this ??
> > bhAshyakAra clarifies :  jagat vyApArastu nitya siddhasyaiveshwarasya…
> >
> > And again, though jeeva is nothing but brahma brahma is not jeeva…in the
> > svarUpa both diamond and char coal one and the same but no one wants to
> > wear the char coal ring and use diamond for cooking the rice ☺ In short,
> > jeeva is shAreeri  (shareera eva bhavati) whereas Ishwara is
> > sarvAntaryaami  and sarvavyApi ( na tu shareere eva bhavati).  And
> > elsewhere bhAshyakAra again makes the difference between shAreeri and
> > parameshwara to avoid the confusion in jeeveshwara bheda in vyavahAra by
> > saying :  visheshO hi bhavati shAreera parameshwarayOH, ekaH (jeeva)
> kartA,
> > bhOktA dharmAdharma sAdhanaH sukhaduHkhAdimAmscha…ekaH tad vipareetaH
> > (brahma / parameshwara) who is avidyA vinirmukta, nitya shuddha, Buddha,
> > mukta, apahatapApmatvAdiguNaH…etasmAdanayOH visheshAdekasya bhOgaH na
> > etarasya…So, twisting the jeeva bhrAnta srushti to jeeva is nothing but
> > parameshwara srushti is not bhAshya sammata, shruti sammata not even
> > vedAnta maryAda.
> >
> > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > bhaskar
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> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
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