[Advaita-l] Are the Lord's bodies too ephemeral?

[V Subrahmanian]

In the BSB 1.1.20 Shankara has said:

यत्तूक्तं हिरण्यश्मश्रुत्वादिरूपवत्त्वश्रवणं परमेश्वरे नोपपद्यत इति, अत्र
ब्रूमः — स्यात्परमेश्वरस्यापीच्छावशान्मायामयं रूपं साधकानुग्रहार्थम् ,
‘माया ह्येषा मया सृष्टा यन्मां पश्यसि नारद । सर्वभूतगुणैर्युक्तं मैवं मां
ज्ञातुमर्हसि’ इति स्मरणात् ।

Brahman can take, by will, an illusory form, for the sake of blessing the
aspirant. He cites the Mahabharata verse where Krishna, pointing to the
visvarupa says to Narada:  His is a form that I have created out of My. Do
not know that to be my true nature.'

The form of Rama, Krishna or any other deity that a devotee might
contemplate upon and even perceive as a vision is not the niyata rupa,
regular form, of Brahman, for the Upanishads deny any form to Brahman:
Shankara adds in the above passage: अपि च, यत्र तु निरस्तसर्वविशेषं
पारमेश्वरं रूपमुपदिश्यते, भवति तत्र शास्त्रम् ‘अशब्दमस्पर्शमरूपमव्ययम्’ (क.
उ. १ । ३ । १५)
<http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Kathaka?page=1&id=Ka_C01_S03_V15&hl=%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D>
 इत्यादि ।

The Vednta siddhnta is: anything that has a form is an attribute of
prakriti, through the tejas bhUta. Even aprAkRta is admitted in the
Advaitasiddhi as of prakrti only, if not through the medium of the
panchabhUta-s. An aspirant can imagine any kind of dress, ornaments,
posture, etc. exploits, etc. to the divine form. There is no limit to that.


regards
subrahmanian.v

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 1:19 AM, S Jayanarayanan via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> The Divine Form of the Avatar is eternal, but the body is not.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 8/16/17, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
> vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Are the Lord's bodies too ephemeral?
>  To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
> vedanta.org>
>  Cc: "Venkatesh Murthy" <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
>  Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2017, 10:14 PM
>
>  Namaste
>
>  2017-08-17 9:03 GMT+05:30 S Jayanarayanan via
>  Advaita-l <
>  advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>:
>
>  > Simply put: Yes. If they
>  weren't ephemeral, we could actually see Rama and
>  > Krishna walking around today :-)
>
>
>  Some great
>  devotees may say they have seen Raama or Krishna today. Is
>  it a
>  lie? No. It is like having a Darshan in
>  a dream. They will see God in
>  whatever form
>  they have Bhakti. Therefore we can say God's bodies are
>  there
>  for devotees only. If he wants to see
>  it he can see it. Like in a dream.
>
>  2017-08-17 9:03 GMT+05:30 S Jayanarayanan via
>  Advaita-l <
>  advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>:
>
>  > Simply put: Yes. If they
>  weren't ephemeral, we could actually see Rama and
>  > Krishna walking around today :-)
>  >
>  > Seriously, the
>  Mahabharata speaks of Krishna letting go of his physical
>  > body using "Maha-Yoga"!
>  >
>  > The difference
>  between the Jivas' and Ishvara's bodies is that the
>  former
>  > is born via Karma, whereas the
>  latter via Yoga.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >       From: V Subrahmanian via
>  Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>  > vedanta.org>
>  >  To:
>  A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>  > vedanta.org>; Advaitin <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
>  > Cc: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>  >  Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 8:02 PM
>  >  Subject: [Advaita-l] Are the Lord's
>  bodies too ephemeral?
>  >
>  > In the BG 2.12 the Lord says:
>  >
>  > न
>  त्वेवाहं जातु नासं न
>  त्वं नेमे जनाधिपाः ।
>  > न चैव न
>  भविष्यामः सर्वे वयमतः
>  परम् ॥ १२ ॥
>  >
>  भाष्यम्
>  > <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/
>  > Gita#bhashya-BG_C02_V12>
>  > 2.12 But certainly (it is) not (a fact)
>  that I did not exist at any time;
>  > nor
>  you, nor these rulers of men. And surely it is not that we
>  all shall
>  > cease to exist after this.
>  > न तु एव जातु
>  कदाचित् अहं नासम् , किं
>  तु आसमेव ।
>  > *
>  अतीतेषु
>  देहोत्पत्तिविनाशेषु
>  घटादिषु वियदिव नित्य
>  एव
>  अहमासमित्यभिप्रायः
>  ।*
>  > तथा न त्वं न
>  आसीः, किं तु आसीरेव ।
>  तथा न इमेजनाधिपाः न
>  आसन् , किं तु
>  >
>  आसन्नेव
>  >  । तथा
>  न च एव न भविष्यामः, किं
>  तु भविष्याम एव, सर्वे
>  वयम् अतः अस्मात् दे
>  > हविनाशात् परम्
>  उत्तरकाले अपि ।
>  त्रिष्वपि कालेषु
>  नित्याआत्मस्वरूपेण
>  इत्यर्थः
>  >  ।
>  देहभेदानुवृत्त्या
>  बहुवचनम् ,
>  नात्मभेदाभिप्रायेण ॥
>  १२ ॥
>  > *English Translation Of Sri
>  Shankaracharya's Sanskrit Commentary By Swami
>  > Gambirananda*
>  >
>  > 2.12 Why are they not to be grieved for?
>  Because they are eternal. How? Na
>  > tu
>  eva, but certainly it is not (a fact); that jatu, at any
>  time; aham, I ;
>  > na āsam, did not
>  exist; on the contrary, I did exist. *The idea is that
>  > when the bodies were born or died in the
>  past, I existed eternally*. [Here
>  > Ast.
>  adds ghatadisu viyadiva, like Space in pot etc.-Tr.]
>  Similarly, na
>  > tvam, nor is it that you
>  did not exist; but you surely existed.
>  >
>  > In BG 4.5 too the
>  Lord says:
>  >
>  >
>  बहूनि मे व्यतीतानि
>  जन्मानि तव चार्जुन ।
>  > तान्यहं वेद
>  सर्वाणि न त्वं वेत्थ
>  परन्तप ॥ ५ ॥
>  >
>  भाष्यम्
>  > <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/
> bhashyaVyakhya/Gita?vyakhya=
>  > AG#bhashya-BG_C04_V05>
>  >
>  > 4.5 The Blessed Lord
>  said O Arjuna, many lives of Mine have passed, and so
>  > have yours. I know them all, (but) you
>  know not, O scorcher of enemies!
>  >
>  > Shankara says:  बहूनि मे
>  मम व्यतीतानि
>  अतिक्रान्तानि
>  जन्मानि तव च हे
>  अर्जुन
>  > ।
>  > [Many births of mine have gone by.]
>  Anandagiri says:
>  >
>  >
>  अतीतानेकजन्मवत्त्वं
>  ममैव नासाधारणं, किन्तु
>  सर्वप्राणिसाधारणमित्याह
>  - तव
>  > चेति ।  [That many
>  births have gone by is not unique to Me, but it is
>  > common to all jīva-s.]
>  > From the above we know that Shankara holds
>  the bodies of Bhagavān too to be
>  >
>  subject to utpatti - birth and vināśa - destruction. He
>  gives the example
>  > of the pot-space for
>  the bodies of Bhagavān as well. That is, the pot is
>  > akin to the bodies and the space that does
>  not get affected by the birth
>  > and
>  destruction of the pot, is likened to the Ātmā, Pure
>  Consciousness.
>  > Om Tat Sat
>  >
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>
>  --
>  Regards
>
>  -Venkatesh
>  _______________________________________________
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