[Advaita-l] Are the Lord's bodies too ephemeral?
V Subrahmanian
v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Thu Aug 17 22:20:02 EDT 2017
Here is an article with some more passages from Shankara:
https://wordpress.com/stats/post/944/adbhutam.wordpress.com
vs
On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 7:36 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:
> In the BSB 1.1.20 Shankara has said:
>
> यत्तूक्तं हिरण्यश्मश्रुत्वादिरूपवत्त्वश्रवणं परमेश्वरे नोपपद्यत इति, अत्र
> ब्रूमः — स्यात्परमेश्वरस्यापीच्छावशान्मायामयं रूपं साधकानुग्रहार्थम् ,
> ‘माया ह्येषा मया सृष्टा यन्मां पश्यसि नारद । सर्वभूतगुणैर्युक्तं मैवं मां
> ज्ञातुमर्हसि’ इति स्मरणात् ।
>
> Brahman can take, by will, an illusory form, for the sake of blessing the
> aspirant. He cites the Mahabharata verse where Krishna, pointing to the
> visvarupa says to Narada: His is a form that I have created out of My. Do
> not know that to be my true nature.'
>
> The form of Rama, Krishna or any other deity that a devotee might
> contemplate upon and even perceive as a vision is not the niyata rupa,
> regular form, of Brahman, for the Upanishads deny any form to Brahman:
> Shankara adds in the above passage: अपि च, यत्र तु निरस्तसर्वविशेषं
> पारमेश्वरं रूपमुपदिश्यते, भवति तत्र शास्त्रम् ‘अशब्दमस्पर्शमरूपमव्ययम्’
> (क. उ. १ । ३ । १५)
> <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Kathaka?page=1&id=Ka_C01_S03_V15&hl=%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D>
> इत्यादि ।
>
> The Vednta siddhnta is: anything that has a form is an attribute of
> prakriti, through the tejas bhUta. Even aprAkRta is admitted in the
> Advaitasiddhi as of prakrti only, if not through the medium of the
> panchabhUta-s. An aspirant can imagine any kind of dress, ornaments,
> posture, etc. exploits, etc. to the divine form. There is no limit to that.
>
>
> regards
> subrahmanian.v
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 1:19 AM, S Jayanarayanan via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> The Divine Form of the Avatar is eternal, but the body is not.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 8/16/17, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Are the Lord's bodies too ephemeral?
>> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Cc: "Venkatesh Murthy" <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2017, 10:14 PM
>>
>> Namaste
>>
>> 2017-08-17 9:03 GMT+05:30 S Jayanarayanan via
>> Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>:
>>
>> > Simply put: Yes. If they
>> weren't ephemeral, we could actually see Rama and
>> > Krishna walking around today :-)
>>
>>
>> Some great
>> devotees may say they have seen Raama or Krishna today. Is
>> it a
>> lie? No. It is like having a Darshan in
>> a dream. They will see God in
>> whatever form
>> they have Bhakti. Therefore we can say God's bodies are
>> there
>> for devotees only. If he wants to see
>> it he can see it. Like in a dream.
>>
>> 2017-08-17 9:03 GMT+05:30 S Jayanarayanan via
>> Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>:
>>
>> > Simply put: Yes. If they
>> weren't ephemeral, we could actually see Rama and
>> > Krishna walking around today :-)
>> >
>> > Seriously, the
>> Mahabharata speaks of Krishna letting go of his physical
>> > body using "Maha-Yoga"!
>> >
>> > The difference
>> between the Jivas' and Ishvara's bodies is that the
>> former
>> > is born via Karma, whereas the
>> latter via Yoga.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: V Subrahmanian via
>> Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>> > vedanta.org>
>> > To:
>> A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>> > vedanta.org>; Advaitin <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
>> > Cc: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 8:02 PM
>> > Subject: [Advaita-l] Are the Lord's
>> bodies too ephemeral?
>> >
>> > In the BG 2.12 the Lord says:
>> >
>> > न
>> त्वेवाहं जातु नासं न
>> त्वं नेमे जनाधिपाः ।
>> > न चैव न
>> भविष्यामः सर्वे वयमतः
>> परम् ॥ १२ ॥
>> >
>> भाष्यम्
>> > <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/
>> > Gita#bhashya-BG_C02_V12>
>> > 2.12 But certainly (it is) not (a fact)
>> that I did not exist at any time;
>> > nor
>> you, nor these rulers of men. And surely it is not that we
>> all shall
>> > cease to exist after this.
>> > न तु एव जातु
>> कदाचित् अहं नासम् , किं
>> तु आसमेव ।
>> > *
>> अतीतेषु
>> देहोत्पत्तिविनाशेषु
>> घटादिषु वियदिव नित्य
>> एव
>> अहमासमित्यभिप्रायः
>> ।*
>> > तथा न त्वं न
>> आसीः, किं तु आसीरेव ।
>> तथा न इमेजनाधिपाः न
>> आसन् , किं तु
>> >
>> आसन्नेव
>> > । तथा
>> न च एव न भविष्यामः, किं
>> तु भविष्याम एव, सर्वे
>> वयम् अतः अस्मात् दे
>> > हविनाशात् परम्
>> उत्तरकाले अपि ।
>> त्रिष्वपि कालेषु
>> नित्याआत्मस्वरूपेण
>> इत्यर्थः
>> > ।
>> देहभेदानुवृत्त्या
>> बहुवचनम् ,
>> नात्मभेदाभिप्रायेण ॥
>> १२ ॥
>> > *English Translation Of Sri
>> Shankaracharya's Sanskrit Commentary By Swami
>> > Gambirananda*
>> >
>> > 2.12 Why are they not to be grieved for?
>> Because they are eternal. How? Na
>> > tu
>> eva, but certainly it is not (a fact); that jatu, at any
>> time; aham, I ;
>> > na āsam, did not
>> exist; on the contrary, I did exist. *The idea is that
>> > when the bodies were born or died in the
>> past, I existed eternally*. [Here
>> > Ast.
>> adds ghatadisu viyadiva, like Space in pot etc.-Tr.]
>> Similarly, na
>> > tvam, nor is it that you
>> did not exist; but you surely existed.
>> >
>> > In BG 4.5 too the
>> Lord says:
>> >
>> >
>> बहूनि मे व्यतीतानि
>> जन्मानि तव चार्जुन ।
>> > तान्यहं वेद
>> सर्वाणि न त्वं वेत्थ
>> परन्तप ॥ ५ ॥
>> >
>> भाष्यम्
>> > <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashyaVyakhya/
>> Gita?vyakhya=
>> > AG#bhashya-BG_C04_V05>
>> >
>> > 4.5 The Blessed Lord
>> said O Arjuna, many lives of Mine have passed, and so
>> > have yours. I know them all, (but) you
>> know not, O scorcher of enemies!
>> >
>> > Shankara says: बहूनि मे
>> मम व्यतीतानि
>> अतिक्रान्तानि
>> जन्मानि तव च हे
>> अर्जुन
>> > ।
>> > [Many births of mine have gone by.]
>> Anandagiri says:
>> >
>> >
>> अतीतानेकजन्मवत्त्वं
>> ममैव नासाधारणं, किन्तु
>> सर्वप्राणिसाधारणमित्याह
>> - तव
>> > चेति । [That many
>> births have gone by is not unique to Me, but it is
>> > common to all jīva-s.]
>> > From the above we know that Shankara holds
>> the bodies of Bhagavān too to be
>> >
>> subject to utpatti - birth and vināśa - destruction. He
>> gives the example
>> > of the pot-space for
>> the bodies of Bhagavān as well. That is, the pot is
>> > akin to the bodies and the space that does
>> not get affected by the birth
>> > and
>> destruction of the pot, is likened to the Ātmā, Pure
>> Consciousness.
>> > Om Tat Sat
>> >
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>> --
>> Regards
>>
>> -Venkatesh
>> _______________________________________________
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