[Advaita-l] Are the Lord's bodies too ephemeral?

V Subrahmanian v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Thu Aug 17 22:20:02 EDT 2017
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Here is an article with some more passages from Shankara:

https://wordpress.com/stats/post/944/adbhutam.wordpress.com

vs

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 7:36 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

> In the BSB 1.1.20 Shankara has said:
>
> यत्तूक्तं हिरण्यश्मश्रुत्वादिरूपवत्त्वश्रवणं परमेश्वरे नोपपद्यत इति, अत्र
> ब्रूमः — स्यात्परमेश्वरस्यापीच्छावशान्मायामयं रूपं साधकानुग्रहार्थम् ,
> ‘माया ह्येषा मया सृष्टा यन्मां पश्यसि नारद । सर्वभूतगुणैर्युक्तं मैवं मां
> ज्ञातुमर्हसि’ इति स्मरणात् ।
>
> Brahman can take, by will, an illusory form, for the sake of blessing the
> aspirant. He cites the Mahabharata verse where Krishna, pointing to the
> visvarupa says to Narada:  His is a form that I have created out of My. Do
> not know that to be my true nature.'
>
> The form of Rama, Krishna or any other deity that a devotee might
> contemplate upon and even perceive as a vision is not the niyata rupa,
> regular form, of Brahman, for the Upanishads deny any form to Brahman:
> Shankara adds in the above passage: अपि च, यत्र तु निरस्तसर्वविशेषं
> पारमेश्वरं रूपमुपदिश्यते, भवति तत्र शास्त्रम् ‘अशब्दमस्पर्शमरूपमव्ययम्’
> (क. उ. १ । ३ । १५)
> <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Kathaka?page=1&id=Ka_C01_S03_V15&hl=%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D>
>  इत्यादि ।
>
> The Vednta siddhnta is: anything that has a form is an attribute of
> prakriti, through the tejas bhUta. Even aprAkRta is admitted in the
> Advaitasiddhi as of prakrti only, if not through the medium of the
> panchabhUta-s. An aspirant can imagine any kind of dress, ornaments,
> posture, etc. exploits, etc. to the divine form. There is no limit to that.
>
>
> regards
> subrahmanian.v
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 1:19 AM, S Jayanarayanan via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> The Divine Form of the Avatar is eternal, but the body is not.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 8/16/17, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Are the Lord's bodies too ephemeral?
>>  To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>>  Cc: "Venkatesh Murthy" <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>
>>  Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2017, 10:14 PM
>>
>>  Namaste
>>
>>  2017-08-17 9:03 GMT+05:30 S Jayanarayanan via
>>  Advaita-l <
>>  advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>:
>>
>>  > Simply put: Yes. If they
>>  weren't ephemeral, we could actually see Rama and
>>  > Krishna walking around today :-)
>>
>>
>>  Some great
>>  devotees may say they have seen Raama or Krishna today. Is
>>  it a
>>  lie? No. It is like having a Darshan in
>>  a dream. They will see God in
>>  whatever form
>>  they have Bhakti. Therefore we can say God's bodies are
>>  there
>>  for devotees only. If he wants to see
>>  it he can see it. Like in a dream.
>>
>>  2017-08-17 9:03 GMT+05:30 S Jayanarayanan via
>>  Advaita-l <
>>  advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>:
>>
>>  > Simply put: Yes. If they
>>  weren't ephemeral, we could actually see Rama and
>>  > Krishna walking around today :-)
>>  >
>>  > Seriously, the
>>  Mahabharata speaks of Krishna letting go of his physical
>>  > body using "Maha-Yoga"!
>>  >
>>  > The difference
>>  between the Jivas' and Ishvara's bodies is that the
>>  former
>>  > is born via Karma, whereas the
>>  latter via Yoga.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >       From: V Subrahmanian via
>>  Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>>  > vedanta.org>
>>  >  To:
>>  A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
>>  > vedanta.org>; Advaitin <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
>>  > Cc: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>>  >  Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 8:02 PM
>>  >  Subject: [Advaita-l] Are the Lord's
>>  bodies too ephemeral?
>>  >
>>  > In the BG 2.12 the Lord says:
>>  >
>>  > न
>>  त्वेवाहं जातु नासं न
>>  त्वं नेमे जनाधिपाः ।
>>  > न चैव न
>>  भविष्यामः सर्वे वयमतः
>>  परम् ॥ १२ ॥
>>  >
>>  भाष्यम्
>>  > <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/
>>  > Gita#bhashya-BG_C02_V12>
>>  > 2.12 But certainly (it is) not (a fact)
>>  that I did not exist at any time;
>>  > nor
>>  you, nor these rulers of men. And surely it is not that we
>>  all shall
>>  > cease to exist after this.
>>  > न तु एव जातु
>>  कदाचित् अहं नासम् , किं
>>  तु आसमेव ।
>>  > *
>>  अतीतेषु
>>  देहोत्पत्तिविनाशेषु
>>  घटादिषु वियदिव नित्य
>>  एव
>>  अहमासमित्यभिप्रायः
>>  ।*
>>  > तथा न त्वं न
>>  आसीः, किं तु आसीरेव ।
>>  तथा न इमेजनाधिपाः न
>>  आसन् , किं तु
>>  >
>>  आसन्नेव
>>  >  । तथा
>>  न च एव न भविष्यामः, किं
>>  तु भविष्याम एव, सर्वे
>>  वयम् अतः अस्मात् दे
>>  > हविनाशात् परम्
>>  उत्तरकाले अपि ।
>>  त्रिष्वपि कालेषु
>>  नित्याआत्मस्वरूपेण
>>  इत्यर्थः
>>  >  ।
>>  देहभेदानुवृत्त्या
>>  बहुवचनम् ,
>>  नात्मभेदाभिप्रायेण ॥
>>  १२ ॥
>>  > *English Translation Of Sri
>>  Shankaracharya's Sanskrit Commentary By Swami
>>  > Gambirananda*
>>  >
>>  > 2.12 Why are they not to be grieved for?
>>  Because they are eternal. How? Na
>>  > tu
>>  eva, but certainly it is not (a fact); that jatu, at any
>>  time; aham, I ;
>>  > na āsam, did not
>>  exist; on the contrary, I did exist. *The idea is that
>>  > when the bodies were born or died in the
>>  past, I existed eternally*. [Here
>>  > Ast.
>>  adds ghatadisu viyadiva, like Space in pot etc.-Tr.]
>>  Similarly, na
>>  > tvam, nor is it that you
>>  did not exist; but you surely existed.
>>  >
>>  > In BG 4.5 too the
>>  Lord says:
>>  >
>>  >
>>  बहूनि मे व्यतीतानि
>>  जन्मानि तव चार्जुन ।
>>  > तान्यहं वेद
>>  सर्वाणि न त्वं वेत्थ
>>  परन्तप ॥ ५ ॥
>>  >
>>  भाष्यम्
>>  > <http://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashyaVyakhya/
>> Gita?vyakhya=
>>  > AG#bhashya-BG_C04_V05>
>>  >
>>  > 4.5 The Blessed Lord
>>  said O Arjuna, many lives of Mine have passed, and so
>>  > have yours. I know them all, (but) you
>>  know not, O scorcher of enemies!
>>  >
>>  > Shankara says:  बहूनि मे
>>  मम व्यतीतानि
>>  अतिक्रान्तानि
>>  जन्मानि तव च हे
>>  अर्जुन
>>  > ।
>>  > [Many births of mine have gone by.]
>>  Anandagiri says:
>>  >
>>  >
>>  अतीतानेकजन्मवत्त्वं
>>  ममैव नासाधारणं, किन्तु
>>  सर्वप्राणिसाधारणमित्याह
>>  - तव
>>  > चेति ।  [That many
>>  births have gone by is not unique to Me, but it is
>>  > common to all jīva-s.]
>>  > From the above we know that Shankara holds
>>  the bodies of Bhagavān too to be
>>  >
>>  subject to utpatti - birth and vināśa - destruction. He
>>  gives the example
>>  > of the pot-space for
>>  the bodies of Bhagavān as well. That is, the pot is
>>  > akin to the bodies and the space that does
>>  not get affected by the birth
>>  > and
>>  destruction of the pot, is likened to the Ātmā, Pure
>>  Consciousness.
>>  > Om Tat Sat
>>  >
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>  --
>>  Regards
>>
>>  -Venkatesh
>>  _______________________________________________
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