[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of Sri Vidyashankara [1 Attachment]
Sunil Bhattacharjya
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Wed Jan 11 01:35:07 CST 2017
Mr. Kaul,
You wrote as follows:
Quote
SKB://....also means that you do not believe in the historicity of Lord Krishna and the Mahabharata.
AKK://Bhagwan Krishna was an Incarnation of Bhagwan Vishnu. Your confusion that I do not believe in the historicity of Bhagwan Krishna is therefore totally misplaced!
Regarding the historicity of Mahabharata, it is common knowledge that though the Mahabharata was "written" initially by Veda Vyasa, but there has been a lot of "layering"---so much so that the last revision was in around 400 BCE and maybe even later.
Unquote
You forgot to mention that your date of Mahabharata is around 1500 BCE. People who read the Mahabharata know that Lord Krishna passed away 36 years after the Mahabharata war. So much for your historicity of Lord Krishna.
Secondly, hope you remember that you wrote that Lord Ram was living some million years ago, as you you think the Dwapara yuga was 864,000 years long.
This was just to refresh your memory. As regards the Rajatarangini less said the better, as you did not even know that that there was king called Ravana who ruled Kashmir, according to the Rajatarangini.
Sincerely,
SKB
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/10/17, A K Kaul jyotirved at gmail.com [advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of Sri Vidyashankara [1 Attachment]
To: "advaitin at yahoogroups.com" <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>, "Vidyasankar Sundaresan" <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2017, 10:49 PM
[Attachment(s) from A K Kaul included
below]
Shri Sunil Bhattacharjyaji,Jai Shri Ram!Many thanks for your response listing my
"beliefs". It has given me a chance to clarify
them one by one!SKB://I am
enjoying your argumentsAKK:// Glad to note that!SKB://you believe that the the
Indians did not know about the rashis and that knowledge
came to India from outside.
AKK:// Quite true, since there are no Mesha
etc. Rashis in any of the Vedas or the Vedangas nor in the
Mahabharata! Rashis cannot therefore be of Indian origin!
SKB://You expressed doubt
about the historicity of Lord Ram.AKK:// No! Bhagwan Ram was definitely a
historical ''Avatar" but it is impossible to
decide the period when He Incarnated. It is evident from
the fact that the planetary positions of His horoscope are
said to have been anywhere from 2000 BCE to 7000
BCE!SKB://You believe that the
Kali yugadi in 3102 BCE is a hoax, in spite of the Puranas
telling that Kali yuga started on the day of passing away of
Lord Krishna.AKK:// Kaliyuga is supposed to have started
on February 17/18, 3102 BCE midnight as per the Old as well
as current Surya Siddhanta because the mean longitudes of
almost all the planets was zero on that date and time at
Ujjain. Again as per Aryabhatiya, Kaliyuga started
on February 18, 3102 BCE at 6-00 am Ujjain Mean Time at
Ujjain.Since this is an astronomical impossibility,
thus it is really a hoax!As per the Pauranic lore, Kaliyuga did start
when Bhagwan Krishna "passed away" but then nobody
knows as to when that happened
actually! It is a vicious circle that since Kaliyuga
started in 3102 BCE that is why Bhagwan Krishna had passed
away then! Unless incontrovertible proofs are provided for
either of the two theories, we cannot claim both of them to
be correct!SKB://....also means that
you do not believe in the historicity of Lord Krishna and
the Mahabharata.AKK://Bhagwan Krishna was an Incarnation of
Bhagwan Vishnu. Your confusion that I do not believe in
the historicity of Bhagwan Krishna is therefore totally
misplaced!Regarding the historicity of Mahabharata, it
is common knowledge that though the Mahabharata was
"written" initially by Veda Vyasa, but there has
been a lot of "layering"---so much so that the
last revision was in around 400 BCE and maybe even
later.You are yourself raising a lot of dust that
the Bhagwad Gita in the Gita Press edition or the
Nilakantha edition of the Mahabharata is not the original
Bhagvadgita as it contains only 700 shlokas instead of 745
shlokas, though a commentary has been written on the same by
Aadi Shanaankara himself apart from Sant Gyaneshwar of 11th
century besides Anandagiri, Ramanujacharya and so
on!You are even challenging the same, which
means you have no faith in the integrity of the Gita, much
less the Mahabharata yourself!SKB://You don't believe
in the timeline given in the Rajatarangini.AKK://Kalhana had "compiled"
Rajatarangini in 1148 AD i.e. after more than 600 years of
Varahamihira.Kalhan has said in "First Book"
(i.e. Prathama Ullasa) of his work:48-49.
The kings Gonanda[the First] and his successors ruled Kasmir
during twenty-two hundred and sixty-eight years in the
Kaliyuga. This calculation of the duration of these
kings' reigns] has been thought wrong by some
authors] who were misled by the statement
that the Bharata [war] took place at the end of the Dvapara
[Yuga]. 51. When
six hundred and fifty-three years of the Kaliyuga had passed
away, the Kurus and Pandavas lived on the
earth.
That is
exactly what Varahamihira had said in his Brihat Samhita,
Saptarshi-Chara Adyaya, 3rd shlokaआसन्मघासु
मुनयः शासति पृथ्वीं
युधिष्ठिरे नृपतौ
!षड्द्विकपञ्चद्वियुतः
शक्कालस्तस्य
राज्ञश्च ||"During the reign of
Yudishthira, 2526 years before the commencement of Vikrama
Shaka, the Seven Rishis were at the constellation of Magha
(Regulus)." (Chidambram Iyer
translation).2526
Shaka minus 78 = 2448 AD. As Kaliyuga is supposed to have
started in -3101 AD that means as per Kalahana and also
Varahamihira, Yudhishthira was ruling after 653 of Kaliyuga
had elapsed as per Varahamihira also! That is
in contradiction to the Surya Siddhanta, Aryabhatiya and
common sense since Kliyuga is supposed to have started after
the "Swargarohan of Pandavas"!
Kalhana has said further in 52 of the same
Üllasa"52. At present, in the
twenty-fourth year of the Laukika [era], one thousand and
seventy years of the S'ake era have paased. (Laukika
here means Saptarshi)That is
why I have no faith in either Kali Era or Saptarshi Era or
in what Varahamihira had said about Sapatarshi
Chara. That
also proves that Saptarshi Era, which is supposed to have
started before 25 years of Kali Era, is as imaginary as the
Kali Era is!
SKB:// You believe that
Aryabhatta back calculated and created a fake Kaliyugadi in
3102 BCE. AKK:// That is a fact! As per the attached
"Kali-zero" paper the mean longitudes of all the
planets, except for Rahu and lunar Apogee, were zero as
per the old Surya Siddhanta, the current Surya Siddhanta and
also Aryabhata Siddhanta, but it could never have been so
actually at least over the last 20000 years as per modern
astronomy!The mean longitudes of the Surya Siddhanta
of Pnachasiddhantika, the current Surya Siddhanta as well as
Aryabhata Siddhanta had therefore really been
"manipulated" in such a manner so as to make them
yield zero longitudes, that too for Ujjain mean time
midnight, and that also at Ujjain on February 17/18, 3102
BCE!Surprisingly, Aryabhata in his Aryabhatiya
has calculated the start of Kali Era at the sunrise time of
February 18, 3102 BCE, but in his Arya-Siddhanta, he has
"proved" Kaliyuga to have started at midnight of
February 17/18, 3102 Ujjain meantime!Anybody with common sense can see it for
himself that Kaliyuga could not have started twice within
less than six hours, that too at Ujjain and that too as per
Ujjain meantime!Even Varahamihira was peeved at such a
gimmick of Aryabhata and he has expressed it in
Panchasiddhantika XV/20!Thus the Kali era that we are using in our
panchangas these days is really a fake era without any
astronomical or Pauranic corroboration!SKB://You believe that the
Vamana purana, which defines the 12 rashis is a recent text
and that it has incorporated the rashis after that knowledge
came from outside.AKK://Varahamihira has said in 3/2 of Brihat
Samhitaसांप्रतं
अयनं सवितुः
कर्कटाद्य्म्
मृगादितश्चान्य्त|"The sun turns South
(Dakshinayana - Summer Solstice) when it enters Karkata
and it turns towards North (Uttarayana - Winter Solstice)
when it enters Capricorn (Makara
Rashi)"The
Vamana Purana has said exactly the same thing in
2/16/12ततो दिवाकरो
रात्रिं संप्रयाति च
कर्कटम् | ततो अमराणां
रजनी भवति
दक्षिणायनम् "The sun enters then Karkata
Rashi, which is the start of the six months' night of
gods, known as Dakshinaayana".Varahamihira has said in
Panchasiddhantika 3/21 साम्प्रतम्
अयनं पुनर्वसुतः i.e.
"Presently the Dakshinayana starts from the last
quarter of Punarvasu". And since the Vamana Purana
also has said in an earlier Adyaya that last quarter of
Punarvasu falls in the start of Karkata Rashi, it means both
are repeating one and the same thing!It could
have happened only either if Varahamihira and Vamana Purana
had been contemporaneous, or as an alternative, both of
these works are referring to such phenomena which take place
always like that according to them!That
means both of them are so called saayana---following a
seasonal year and months!Since
the Vamana Purana says that Makar Samkranti is the shortest
day of the year and at the same time it says that Makar
Samkranti coincided with the sun in in Uttarashadha
nakshatra, it means that it has absolutely no knowledge of
precession!
Regarding Makar Samkranti, it was the
shortest day of the year as per Varahamihira
(Panchasiddhantika III/24) उदगयनं
मकरादावृतवः
शिशिरादयश्च
सुर्यवषात! द्विभवन
कालसमानं दक्षिणं
अयनंच कर्कटात् "The sun's turning northward is
when it reaches the zero point of Makara (Capricorn) i.e
at winter solstice, and its turning southward is at the zero
point of Karkata (Cancer) i.e. at summer solstice, with the
attendant sacred days. The seasons Shishira etc. commence
with the winter solstice and each season lasts two tropical
months".Same is
the case with all the other puranas including the Vishnu
Purana, Srimad Bhagvata, the Shiva Purana, the
Vishnudharmotara Purana and so on---all of them are talking
about a so called saayana Rashischakra.
As such, I am
repeating my challenge to all the scholars including you to
quote even a single shloka from any Purana or siddhanta that
does not say that Makar Samkranti is the shortest day of the
year, Karata Samkranti the longest day of the year, Mesha
Samkranti the day of Vernal Equinox and Tula Samkranti the
day of Autumn Equinox!That is why I am crying from housetops
that all the festivals and Muhurtas that we are celebrating
these days are on wrong days. So
I am afraid that the Pongal-cum-Makar Samkranti that the
entire Hindu community will be celebrating on January 15,
2017 has absolutely no, I repeat, absolutely no sanction
from any shastra!The respected Jagadgurus of all the Amnaayas
may kindly take note of the
same!SKB://You believe that
varahamihira was born in the 6th century CE, in spite of the
textual evidences showing that he was born in the 1st
century BCE.AKK://Panchasiddhantika 1/10 has said
सप्ताश्विवेद सङ्ख्यं
शककालमपास्य् which
means ''After deducting 427 years from Shaka
kaala". Shaka Era started from 78 AD. Adding 427 to the
same, it comes to 505 AD. Thus Varahamihira was around in
505 AD.Yet another proof for the same is that
Varahamihira has talked about Aryabhata, who was born in 476
AD as per his Aryabhatiya!If Varahamihira had been around in first
century BCE, he could not have talked about
Aryabhata!SKB://You believe that the
rashis mentioned in the rashi verse in the Vedanga jyotisha
is interpolated and so fake. AKK://It is not only my "belief"
but the belief of all the scholars, without exception,
including Somakar and Dr. K V Sarma, who have written
commentaries on that work!Logically also, since we do not find Mesha
etc. Rashis in much later works like Atharva Jyotisha or
Atharva-Veda Parishishta, it means Rashis had not come to
India till the Surya Siddhanta was "created" in
the early centuries of CE. That is the earliest
astronomical work and the only siddhanta out of all the
five siddhantas of Panchasiddhantika talking
of Mesha etc. RashisSKB://Your belief system and
argumentation is different from that of mine. So go with
your beliefs and let us enjoy.AKK:// My dear Bhattacharjyaji! I am not
thrusting my beliefs on anybody including you! I am just
keeping the facts before public that too since you have
raised all these points!I had naturally to
clarify them!It is up to you and the rest of the
scholarly members of this august forum whether they continue
to celebrate all the festivals including Pongal-cum-Makar
Samkranti ---apart from all the muhurtas---- on wrong days,
or start following the dharmashastras from this moment
onward in right earnest!Jai Shri Ram!Avtar Krishen Kaul
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 10:27 PM, Sunil
Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
[advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
Ha ha ha Mr.
Kaul,
I am enjoying your arguments. I have no intention of
convincing you. Your past correspondence had shown
that you believe that the the Indians did not know about the
rashis and that knowledge came to India from outside. . You
expressed doubt about the historicity of Lord Ram. You
believe that the Kali yugadi in 3102 BCE is a hoax, inspite
of the Puranas telling that Kali yuga started on the day of
passing away of Lord Krishna and that also means that you do
not believe in the historicity of Lord Krisjna and the
Mahabharata. You don't believe in the timeline given in
the Rajatarangini. You believe that Aryabhatta back
calculated and created a fake Kaliyugadi in 3102 BCE. You
believe that the Vamana purana, which defines the 12 rashus
is a recent text and that it has incoroporated the rashis
after that knowledge came from outside. You believe that
varahamihira was born inthe 6th century CE, inspit of the
textual evidences showing that he was born in the 1st
cebtury BCE. You believe that the rashis mentioned in the
rashi verse in the Vedanga jyotisha is interpolated and so
fake.
Your belief system and argumentation is different from that
of mine. So go with your beliefs and let us enjoy.
Sincerely,
SKB
------------------------------ --------------
On Fri, 1/6/17, A K Kaul jyotirved at gmail.com
[advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of Sri
Vidyashankara
To: "advaitin at yahoogroups.com"
<advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Venkatraghavan S" <agnimile at gmail.com>,
"A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedan
ta.org>, "Vidyasankar Sundaresan" <svidyasankar at gmail.com>
Date: Friday, January 6, 2017, 6:35 AM
Shri Sunil Bhattacharjyaji,Jai Shri Ram!SKB://Mahabharata did say that the Bhagavad gita
had 745 verses and Lord Krishna was attributed 620 verses
etc. AKK:// We have already seen that these five shlokas
of Bhishma Parva 43, claiming that the Gita had 745 shlokas,
are conspicuous by their absence from most of the
editions. K M Ganguli in is translation of the Gita (in the
Mahbharata) has this to sayQuote51:1 The text of the Gita has come down to
us without, it may be ventured to be stated, any
interpolation. The difference of reading are few and far
between. For Jayadratha some texts read
tathaivacha.There is not a single edition of the Gita in
any language that has claimed to have more than 700
shlokas.UnquoteSant Gyaneshwar was born in Shaka 1193 i.e
1178 AD, and Gyaneshwari i.e. "Bhavartha
Deepika" commentary was recited in about 1210
AD.The publishers of Gyaneshwari have consulted
as many as 32 manuscripts the earliest one being of Shaka
1515 i.e. 1438 AD. Do you mean to say that all those
manuscripts are not of the "original Gita" since
they contain only 700/701 shlokas, instead of 745
verses?
Then the million dollar question is as to
why did Ramanujacharya not point out that the Gita that Aadi
Shankara had written a commentary on was not "the
original Gita" since there were only 700 shlokas in the
same? Besides, why did Ramanujacharya select a Gita that
was "not original" for writing a
commentary?You may as well start crying from housetops
that even that commentary is not by Ramanujacharya since it
is a commentary on 700 instead of 745
shlokas!Then again B. G. Tilak has written a
commentary on the Gita of 700 verses. Is that work also
"not by Tilak" as the Gita should have been of 745
shlokas?If that is the criterion that you are using
for "The original Gita", then I must put on record
that except for your Gita and that of ISKCON we do not have
any other "original" Gita around these
days!Is that what you are trying to
prove?It is no use to discuss BORI or even
Nilakantha etc. with you since anyone who does not agree
with you, does not deserve to live in this
world!Jai Shri Ram!Avtar Krishen Kaul
Jan
5, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattachar
jya at yahoo.com[advaitin] <advai
tin at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dear
friends,
Mahabharata did
say that the Bhagavad gita had 745 verses and Lord Krishna
was attributed 620 verses etc. I have never changed my
statement and only given the detail about the number of
verses attributed to Lord Krishna in the second mail.
As regards the Critical
edition of the Mahabharata I have written in the past many
times that the chief editor of the critical edition, Dr.
Sukhtankar, made the decision that only those verses which
were common in all versions will be included in the critical
edition. The rest of the verses will be added as extra. But
unfortunately for him (Dr. Sukhtankar), when he gave the
last four-lectures series of talk on the Mahabharata, in the
Asiatic Siciety in Bombay (Mumbai), he could deliver the
first three and expired in the morning of the fourth day,
when the last lecture was to be delivered. The editor of the
series of these lectures included the Dr. Sukhtankar's
note of the fourth lecture to be delivered and added the
preface to the booklet, in which the all the details of the
lectures were included. . The editor mentioned in the
preface, that Dr. Sukhtankara negated all that he was
upholding during the making of the critical edition that the
the verses not commonly found were not authentic.
It appears to me that the
shock was too much on Dr, Sukhtankar at the late realization
of his folly as he quoted in the lecture, mostly the verses
which he earlier thought to be not genuine, and the poor man
had a heart attack in the morning, he was to deliver the
last lecture.
Now, my
request to moderatorji :
I
do not want to continue on this topic with Kaul. If it is
personal mail he can write to my personal mail. If he writes
to the group let him address his mails to all the members. .
But if Mr. kaul makes false accuasations as he had several
times in the past, please do not stop me from replying and
exposing him. THis is my request
Regards,
Sunil
KB
------------------------------ --------------
On Wed, 1/4/17, A K Kaul jyotirved at gmail.com
[advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
--------------------------- --- --------------
On Sat, 12/31/16, Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] Works of
Sri
Vidyashankara
To: "A discussion group for Advaita
Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-
vedanta.org>
Date: Saturday, December 31, 2016, 10:06 AM
Namaste,
One thing we can use to determine objectively
if Shankara bhagavatpAda
wrote the gIta
bhAshya, or if it was a later advaitin in his
tradition,
is
to see if there is any evidence from
other commentators that are
chronologically
proximate to him.
It is
widely accepted that BhAskara, a
bhedAbhedavadin,
who
is
said to have
lived around c. 800 AD
("BhAskara the VedAntin", Daniel
Ingalls),
is
a
close contemporary of Shankaracharya. BhAskara
quotes Shankara's brahma
sUtra bhAshya
quite extensively in his own bhAshya to this
prasthAna.
BhAskara, in turn, is quoted by VAcaspati
Mishra in BhAmati. Therefore, he
must have
lived between Shankara's and
VAcaspati's
lifetimes.
Now turning to
the question if there are any references to
Shankara's
gIta
bhAshya in any of BhAskara's works.
__._,_.___
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}
#yiv4539793705
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