[Advaita-l] Time not Death

[Vidyasankar Sundaresan]

Yes. All embodiment, whether sthUla or sUkshma, has vyAvahArika sattA only.
And mind is part of sUkshma body.

Vidyasankar

On Jun 20, 2017 12:18 PM, "Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l" <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Pranams,
> What about mind. Is mind too a vyavahArika satya?
> Regards
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, H S Chandramouli <
> hschandramouli at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Pranams.
> >
> > Yes.  That is my understanding.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Pranams,
> >>
> >> I agree :) positively. So instead of 'concept' it is better to use
> >> 'vyavahArika satya' to describe time and mAyA.
> >>
> >> Hari OM
> >> Sujal
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM, H S Chandramouli <
> >> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Pranams.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Reg  << Am I getting it wrong? >>,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Since you are asking, I am answering. I think so.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> When you ask  << Can it be considered as real or truth?>>,  the answer
> >>> is Time is vyAvahArika satya. It is anirvachaniya, just as mAya is. I
> >>> hope I have stated my understanding clearly.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> prANAms,
> >>>>
> >>>> There is no one 'else' to experience it separately. If you say, there
> >>>> is absolutely no one who can experience, then we are negating
> Brahman. Is
> >>>> it not SunyavAda? If we do not agree that such a state exists, which
> is
> >>>> beyond mAyA, then is this the final position of advaita?
> >>>>
> >>>> If one has to explain this non-dual state, how can one explain this
> >>>> inexplainable state?
> >>>>
> >>>> Secondly, 'concept' means 'it is construct of mind' because in
> >>>> nirvikalpa samAdhi and in deep sleep, one is beyond time. 'Change' is
> the
> >>>> nature of time' Anything that changes is not constant. Can it be
> considered
> >>>> as real or truth? Am I getting it wrong? Does the state of nirvikalpa
> >>>> samAdhi accept time as eternal truth? Does advaita accept time as
> eternal
> >>>> and hence truth? Please clarify.
> >>>>
> >>>> OM
> >>>>
> >>>> Sujal
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, H S Chandramouli <
> >>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Reg  << when mind is extremely purified, we will have to rise above
> >>>>> mAyA. Hence for such a divine soul, time is a concept of mind as
> when one
> >>>>> is in suShupti or in samAdhi, one does not experience any time i.e.
> one is
> >>>>> not aware of how much time one has spent in deep sleep (suShupti) or
> how
> >>>>> much time one was in nirvikalpa samAdhi.>>,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When one has transcended mAya, or in Sushpti or samAdhi, one does not
> >>>>> experience Time. So how can it be a “concept”. He just does not
> experience
> >>>>> it at all. Period.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> praNAms,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Without Space and time i.e. deSa and kAla, there can be no activity
> >>>>>> and hence no creation, preservation and destruction. Hence when
> talking
> >>>>>> about any activity, these two have to be taken into account, but
> from
> >>>>>> pArmArthika satya, one is only aware of Self- Atman or Brahman and
> nothing
> >>>>>> else. Brahman devoid of space and time is nirvikalpa, achala, etc
> It cannot
> >>>>>> do any activity.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In order to understand creation and for sake of explanation for
> >>>>>> various doubts, mAyA and so space and time has to be taken into
> account.
> >>>>>> But if one wishes to move ahead i.e. go further deep to finally
> cross the
> >>>>>> border of mAyA, then mAyA, space, time and any such phenomenon has
> to be
> >>>>>> downgraded i.e. it's importance has to be decreased, so that mind
> will stop
> >>>>>> getting attached to them or getting attracted or immersed into them
> and
> >>>>>> finally rise above them to enter into nirvikalpa samAdhi.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From collective view point, we cannot ignore mAyA, space and time,
> >>>>>> but from individual standpoint, one day, when mind is extremely
> purified,
> >>>>>> we will have to rise above mAyA. Hence for such a divine soul, time
> is a
> >>>>>> concept of mind as when one is in suShupti or in samAdhi, one does
> not
> >>>>>> experience any time i.e. one is not aware of how much time one has
> spent in
> >>>>>> deep sleep (suShupti) or how much time one was in nirvikalpa
> samAdhi.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When there is no time, there cannot be any space or any distance
> that
> >>>>>> can be traveled. If there is no distance or space between observer
> and
> >>>>>> object (of / under observation), then there cannot be any object.
> Only pure
> >>>>>> consciousness remains. There is in-explainable (deep) peace. eko
> Brahman -
> >>>>>> SAntam Sivam advaitam.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, we will have to take both statements (and both arguments) in
> >>>>>> right context.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When bhagavAn says, he is both time and *beyond time*, what I
> >>>>>> understand is, bhagavAn or KRShNa is both sAkAra and nirAkAra or
> saguNa and
> >>>>>> nirguNa.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> OM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sujal
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:18 AM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> >>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Maya is anirvachaniya. It is not correct to state that it does not
> >>>>>>> exist
> >>>>>>> nor is it correct to say that it is only a concept. It is
> vyAvahArika
> >>>>>>> satya. Same applies to kAla or Time. Upanishads clearly mention
> >>>>>>> "creation"
> >>>>>>> of Time.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Vēdānta Study Group via Advaita-l
> <
> >>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> > hariH Om.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > */// Time is just a concept. It is like Maya. There is nothing
> >>>>>>> called Maya
> >>>>>>> > ///*
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Is there any pramana to suggest the above? As far as I know,
> >>>>>>> shankarAchArya
> >>>>>>> > mentions avidyA (for the sake of our discussion let us akin it to
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> > samaSTi mAyA) as having bhAva. It is a vastu enjoying existence,
> >>>>>>> albeit a
> >>>>>>> > dependent one. Therefore I am not too sure how we're saying there
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> > nothing called mAyA. As far as 'time' being just a concept, even
> >>>>>>> this I
> >>>>>>> > would approach with some skepticism. Space is just as real (or
> >>>>>>> unreal) as
> >>>>>>> > time is, in that they're both mithyA, but have a dependent
> >>>>>>> vyAvahAra
> >>>>>>> > reality.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > If time were just a concept, it would not be influenced by
> >>>>>>> anything, which
> >>>>>>> > we know to be untrue. But that aside, I'm we have shAstra to
> >>>>>>> indicate that
> >>>>>>> > mAyA is an existing principle, as are dEsha-kAlA
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Namaste,
> >>>>>>> > Prashant
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > On 19 June 2017 at 02:20, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
> >>>>>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > > On Sun, 18 Jun 2017, R Krishnamoorthy via Advaita-l wrote:
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > Time is just a concept. It is like Maya. There is nothing
> called
> >>>>>>> Maya. We
> >>>>>>> > >> give the name Maya to things which we are not able to fully
> >>>>>>> understand
> >>>>>>> > or
> >>>>>>> > >> is beyond our logic. Time also does not exist. It is the name
> >>>>>>> given to
> >>>>>>> > the
> >>>>>>> > >> duration that elapses between any two events which is
> >>>>>>> measurable and
> >>>>>>> > fully
> >>>>>>> > >> recognisable. In the the Lord says I am Time to indicate He is
> >>>>>>> eternal
> >>>>>>> > >> that
> >>>>>>> > >> is the duration of His presence is lmmeasurable. And All
> beings
> >>>>>>> or non
> >>>>>>> > >> beings
> >>>>>>> > >> have limited duration between their birth to their death or
> end.
> >>>>>>> > >>
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > This is true.  But it isn't it strange that people are afraid
> of
> >>>>>>> death
> >>>>>>> > but
> >>>>>>> > > not afraid of time?  Shankaracharya brings this out in the
> >>>>>>> mohamudgara
> >>>>>>> > > stotra in which he admonishes an old man who is studying to
> >>>>>>> vyakarana to
> >>>>>>> > > "bhaje govindam".
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > This is another example of bad interpretations and
> >>>>>>> translations.  Some
> >>>>>>> > > make it out to be some sort of tirade against grammar which is
> >>>>>>> ridiculous
> >>>>>>> > > to anyone who knows the position vyakarana plays in Sanskrit
> >>>>>>> scholarship.
> >>>>>>> > > (In fact according to thinkers like Bhartrahari, it is itself a
> >>>>>>> form of
> >>>>>>> > > Vedantic sadhana.)  No; what the acharya is saying is that why
> >>>>>>> would you
> >>>>>>> > > wait until your time has almost run out to begin sadhana?  The
> >>>>>>> right time
> >>>>>>> > > is now.
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>> > > --
> >>>>>>> > > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> >>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>> > >
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