[Advaita-l] Time not Death

Sujal Upadhyay sujal.u at gmail.com
Tue Jun 20 04:08:22 EDT 2017
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Agree.

My first post was about 'application'. When dealing with samsAra, time,
etc, is vyavahArika satya, but when we are doing nidhidyAsana, nothing
except 'I', the first person, or Brahman, is given importance. Here there
is no 'outer samsAra' (bahir-samsAra). The 'inner samsAra' or objects in
mind - feelings, emotions, thoughts, images, etc are to be dealt with.

So time being 'concept of mind' helps one detach from mind, etc. It also
helps one stop clocking one's meditation period i.e. there is no need to
set an alarm to finish meditation. One is strongly rooted in Self and stays
as a witness. In short, focus remains on 'I' and not 'anAtmA' i.e. be
antarmukhi (introvert) and not bahirmukhi (extrovert - always looking for
something)

I agree with time, mAyA, etc being vyavahArika satya, but on personal level
we have to rise above them.

Hari OM
Sujal


On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Yes. All embodiment, whether sthUla or sUkshma, has vyAvahArika sattA only.
> And mind is part of sUkshma body.
>
> Vidyasankar
>
> On Jun 20, 2017 12:18 PM, "Sujal Upadhyay via Advaita-l" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Pranams,
> > What about mind. Is mind too a vyavahArika satya?
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, H S Chandramouli <
> > hschandramouli at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Pranams.
> > >
> > > Yes.  That is my understanding.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Pranams,
> > >>
> > >> I agree :) positively. So instead of 'concept' it is better to use
> > >> 'vyavahArika satya' to describe time and mAyA.
> > >>
> > >> Hari OM
> > >> Sujal
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM, H S Chandramouli <
> > >> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Pranams.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Reg  << Am I getting it wrong? >>,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Since you are asking, I am answering. I think so.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> When you ask  << Can it be considered as real or truth?>>,  the
> answer
> > >>> is Time is vyAvahArika satya. It is anirvachaniya, just as mAya is. I
> > >>> hope I have stated my understanding clearly.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> prANAms,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> There is no one 'else' to experience it separately. If you say,
> there
> > >>>> is absolutely no one who can experience, then we are negating
> > Brahman. Is
> > >>>> it not SunyavAda? If we do not agree that such a state exists, which
> > is
> > >>>> beyond mAyA, then is this the final position of advaita?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If one has to explain this non-dual state, how can one explain this
> > >>>> inexplainable state?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Secondly, 'concept' means 'it is construct of mind' because in
> > >>>> nirvikalpa samAdhi and in deep sleep, one is beyond time. 'Change'
> is
> > the
> > >>>> nature of time' Anything that changes is not constant. Can it be
> > considered
> > >>>> as real or truth? Am I getting it wrong? Does the state of
> nirvikalpa
> > >>>> samAdhi accept time as eternal truth? Does advaita accept time as
> > eternal
> > >>>> and hence truth? Please clarify.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> OM
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sujal
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, H S Chandramouli <
> > >>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Reg  << when mind is extremely purified, we will have to rise above
> > >>>>> mAyA. Hence for such a divine soul, time is a concept of mind as
> > when one
> > >>>>> is in suShupti or in samAdhi, one does not experience any time i.e.
> > one is
> > >>>>> not aware of how much time one has spent in deep sleep (suShupti)
> or
> > how
> > >>>>> much time one was in nirvikalpa samAdhi.>>,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> When one has transcended mAya, or in Sushpti or samAdhi, one does
> not
> > >>>>> experience Time. So how can it be a “concept”. He just does not
> > experience
> > >>>>> it at all. Period.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Regards
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Sujal Upadhyay <
> sujal.u at gmail.com>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> praNAms,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Without Space and time i.e. deSa and kAla, there can be no
> activity
> > >>>>>> and hence no creation, preservation and destruction. Hence when
> > talking
> > >>>>>> about any activity, these two have to be taken into account, but
> > from
> > >>>>>> pArmArthika satya, one is only aware of Self- Atman or Brahman and
> > nothing
> > >>>>>> else. Brahman devoid of space and time is nirvikalpa, achala, etc
> > It cannot
> > >>>>>> do any activity.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In order to understand creation and for sake of explanation for
> > >>>>>> various doubts, mAyA and so space and time has to be taken into
> > account.
> > >>>>>> But if one wishes to move ahead i.e. go further deep to finally
> > cross the
> > >>>>>> border of mAyA, then mAyA, space, time and any such phenomenon has
> > to be
> > >>>>>> downgraded i.e. it's importance has to be decreased, so that mind
> > will stop
> > >>>>>> getting attached to them or getting attracted or immersed into
> them
> > and
> > >>>>>> finally rise above them to enter into nirvikalpa samAdhi.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> From collective view point, we cannot ignore mAyA, space and time,
> > >>>>>> but from individual standpoint, one day, when mind is extremely
> > purified,
> > >>>>>> we will have to rise above mAyA. Hence for such a divine soul,
> time
> > is a
> > >>>>>> concept of mind as when one is in suShupti or in samAdhi, one does
> > not
> > >>>>>> experience any time i.e. one is not aware of how much time one has
> > spent in
> > >>>>>> deep sleep (suShupti) or how much time one was in nirvikalpa
> > samAdhi.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> When there is no time, there cannot be any space or any distance
> > that
> > >>>>>> can be traveled. If there is no distance or space between observer
> > and
> > >>>>>> object (of / under observation), then there cannot be any object.
> > Only pure
> > >>>>>> consciousness remains. There is in-explainable (deep) peace. eko
> > Brahman -
> > >>>>>> SAntam Sivam advaitam.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> So, we will have to take both statements (and both arguments) in
> > >>>>>> right context.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> When bhagavAn says, he is both time and *beyond time*, what I
> > >>>>>> understand is, bhagavAn or KRShNa is both sAkAra and nirAkAra or
> > saguNa and
> > >>>>>> nirguNa.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> OM
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Sujal
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 11:18 AM, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> > >>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Maya is anirvachaniya. It is not correct to state that it does
> not
> > >>>>>>> exist
> > >>>>>>> nor is it correct to say that it is only a concept. It is
> > vyAvahArika
> > >>>>>>> satya. Same applies to kAla or Time. Upanishads clearly mention
> > >>>>>>> "creation"
> > >>>>>>> of Time.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Regards
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Vēdānta Study Group via
> Advaita-l
> > <
> > >>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> > hariH Om.
> > >>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>> > */// Time is just a concept. It is like Maya. There is nothing
> > >>>>>>> called Maya
> > >>>>>>> > ///*
> > >>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>> > Is there any pramana to suggest the above? As far as I know,
> > >>>>>>> shankarAchArya
> > >>>>>>> > mentions avidyA (for the sake of our discussion let us akin it
> to
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>> > samaSTi mAyA) as having bhAva. It is a vastu enjoying
> existence,
> > >>>>>>> albeit a
> > >>>>>>> > dependent one. Therefore I am not too sure how we're saying
> there
> > >>>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>> > nothing called mAyA. As far as 'time' being just a concept,
> even
> > >>>>>>> this I
> > >>>>>>> > would approach with some skepticism. Space is just as real (or
> > >>>>>>> unreal) as
> > >>>>>>> > time is, in that they're both mithyA, but have a dependent
> > >>>>>>> vyAvahAra
> > >>>>>>> > reality.
> > >>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>> > If time were just a concept, it would not be influenced by
> > >>>>>>> anything, which
> > >>>>>>> > we know to be untrue. But that aside, I'm we have shAstra to
> > >>>>>>> indicate that
> > >>>>>>> > mAyA is an existing principle, as are dEsha-kAlA
> > >>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>> > Namaste,
> > >>>>>>> > Prashant
> > >>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>> > On 19 June 2017 at 02:20, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
> > >>>>>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>> > > On Sun, 18 Jun 2017, R Krishnamoorthy via Advaita-l wrote:
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > >>>>>>> > > Time is just a concept. It is like Maya. There is nothing
> > called
> > >>>>>>> Maya. We
> > >>>>>>> > >> give the name Maya to things which we are not able to fully
> > >>>>>>> understand
> > >>>>>>> > or
> > >>>>>>> > >> is beyond our logic. Time also does not exist. It is the
> name
> > >>>>>>> given to
> > >>>>>>> > the
> > >>>>>>> > >> duration that elapses between any two events which is
> > >>>>>>> measurable and
> > >>>>>>> > fully
> > >>>>>>> > >> recognisable. In the the Lord says I am Time to indicate He
> is
> > >>>>>>> eternal
> > >>>>>>> > >> that
> > >>>>>>> > >> is the duration of His presence is lmmeasurable. And All
> > beings
> > >>>>>>> or non
> > >>>>>>> > >> beings
> > >>>>>>> > >> have limited duration between their birth to their death or
> > end.
> > >>>>>>> > >>
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > >>>>>>> > > This is true.  But it isn't it strange that people are afraid
> > of
> > >>>>>>> death
> > >>>>>>> > but
> > >>>>>>> > > not afraid of time?  Shankaracharya brings this out in the
> > >>>>>>> mohamudgara
> > >>>>>>> > > stotra in which he admonishes an old man who is studying to
> > >>>>>>> vyakarana to
> > >>>>>>> > > "bhaje govindam".
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > >>>>>>> > > This is another example of bad interpretations and
> > >>>>>>> translations.  Some
> > >>>>>>> > > make it out to be some sort of tirade against grammar which
> is
> > >>>>>>> ridiculous
> > >>>>>>> > > to anyone who knows the position vyakarana plays in Sanskrit
> > >>>>>>> scholarship.
> > >>>>>>> > > (In fact according to thinkers like Bhartrahari, it is
> itself a
> > >>>>>>> form of
> > >>>>>>> > > Vedantic sadhana.)  No; what the acharya is saying is that
> why
> > >>>>>>> would you
> > >>>>>>> > > wait until your time has almost run out to begin sadhana?
> The
> > >>>>>>> right time
> > >>>>>>> > > is now.
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > >>>>>>> > > --
> > >>>>>>> > > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
> > >>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >>>>>>> > >
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