[Advaita-l] Vaadiraaja Teertha's Yuktimallika - Advaita Criticism - Slokas 1-605 to 1-627

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste Sri Subrahmanian

How do you answer the question about Advaitis supporting Bheda between
Brahman and Gunas? Will it not be against the Abheda Siddhanta of Advaita?
When you are seeing Abheda only everywhere why are you seeing Bheda here?

We cannot ask Dvaitis why they are supporting Abheda here and will it not
be against Bheda Siddhanta? Because Dvaitis never said they will see Bheda
only everywhere. They say there is 5 kinds of Bhedas like Bheda between two
Jeevas, Bheda between Jeeva and Ishwara, Bheda between Jeeva and Jada
Vastu, Bheda between one Jada and another Jada and Bheda between Ishwara
and Jada. But they never said everywhere we are seeing Bheda only in the
World. In some places they are seeing Abheda also. But Advaitis said
everywhere there is Abheda. That is why Neha Nanasti Kimchana and so on.

I think one answer is Advaitis say Brahman is Satya and Gunas are not
Satya. But this is not Bheda between Brahman and Gunas. Why? Because if
there is Bheda between a Satya Vastu and a Mithya Vastu that Bheda is also
Mithya only. When the Mithya Vastu is not there Bheda also is not there.
Therefore we have protected the Abheda Doctrine of Advaita. No Siddhanta
Hani.

The Dvaitis cannot  come back and say if you say there is no Bheda or Bheda
is Mithya you are agreeing Abheda between Brahman and Gunas. No that is not
correct because if Gunas are not existing where is the question of Bheda
and Abheda?

It has become a bit confusing but I tried to keep my head and
thoughts clear.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 3:19 PM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> If it is proposed that Brahman has control over its guṇa-s and can
> manipulate them the way it wants, then those guna-s are no more
> non-different from It. Brahman cannot control Brahman. An entity can only
> control another entity that is different from itself. niyamya-niyāmaka
> bhāva can be there only between two different entities. Also, the guṇa-s on
> which Brahman wields control will have to be jaḍa for that which is
> different from a controlling Chetana is jaḍa. It is on this basis alone the
> BG, for example, exhorts us to cultivate noble qualities and eschew
> undesirable, noxious, ones. For, all such guṇa-s are anātma dharma-s under
> the control of the chetana.
>
> regards
> vs
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 3:45 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Namaste
> >>
> >> Vaadiraaja is next planning a cunning attack on Advaiti theory of saying
> >> Brahman does not have Gunas and Gunas are all false. He is first showing
> >> there is no Bheda between Brahman and His qualities.
> >
> >
> > What are the 'dharma-s'/qualities/guna-s of Brahman? Let us take for
> > example sarvashaktitva, parākramatva, kāruṇya, etc. If these are not
> > different from Brahman, they have to be one with B and have to be always
> > there. However, we see that kāruṇya, etc. manifest only on some occasions
> > and not manifesting always. In the Valmiki Ramayana it is stated:
> >
> >
> >
> > Aranyakāṇḍa 24th sarga:
> >
> > क्रोधमाहारयत् तीव्रं वधार्थं सर्वरक्षसाम् ।
> > दुष्प्रेक्ष्यश्चाभवत् क्रुद्धो युगान्ताग्निरिव ज्वलन् ॥ ३४ ॥   33
> >
> > https://www.valmiki.iitk.ac.in/content?field_kanda_tid=3&lan
> > guage=dv&field_sarga_value=24&field_sloka_value=33&
> >
> > Rama stretched the formidable bow and lifted the arrows from his quiver
> to
> > kill the demons and *assumed intense anger*.
> >
> > If anger were to be Brahman's inherent dharma, non-different from
> Brahman,
> > the latter cannot be without it at any time. Just as agni is never
> without
> > heat and light. But we see that this dharma had to be 'assumed' in order
> to
> > be used. So also in the presence of shourya, kāruṇya will not manifest.
> > There will be the abhibhava, subjugation, of one or several gunas in
> order
> > that others are given dominance. This is a defect in the dharmi.
> >
> > Contrary to this, satyam, jnanam, anantam, ananda, are all svarupa of
> > Brahman and will never leave brahman at any time nor will they become
> > subdued at any time. Shankara has said in the BSB that if srṣtikartrtva
> > etc. are svarupa of Brahman, he will have to be forever, without break,
> > engaging in srishti. So with samharakartrtva, icchā, etc.
> >
> > If any two gunas are considered, they will have to be spoken of as
> > different from each other. If they are non-different from Brahman, there
> > will be no way of differentiating them from each other since Brahman
> cannot
> > be differentiated from itself.
> >
> > Brahman is different from Jiva and jagat. This bheda is to be present in
> > Brahman as its dharma, non-different from it. That will make for shruti
> > virodha: na iha nana (bhedah) asti.
> >
> > If someone has the time kindly present what the Advaita siddhi has said
> > for this objection of the Dvaitin: (It is in the 2nd pariccheda).
> >
> > // विरोधिगुणसंत्यागे स्यादैक्यं वाक्यगोचरम् ।
> >
> > अविरुद्धो हि वाक्यार्थो योग्यता यदपेक्षिता ॥१-६२६
> >
> >  For Aikya or Unity of Jeeva and Brahma you have to reject the Gunas of
> > Brahman opposing the Aikya. Then Aikya Vaakya like Tattvamasi will give
> > Jeeva Brahma Aikya meaning. Because for correct Shabda Bodha the Yogyataa
> > is necessary and there will be no opposing Pramana.//
> >
> > regards
> > vs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>



-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh