[Advaita-l] Significance of Mula Avidya

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Subbuji - PraNAms
I was not planning to get in between these discussions - since some aspects of this problem of muula avidya in terms of Vikshepa and AvaraNa aspects have been discussed before. It is my feeling that a lot of technical jargon has been thrown around to support avidaya as bhaavaruupa. 
About pramaa and bhrama as you have discussed.
brahma arises due to incomplete attributive information received by the senses due to say, partial visibility. The mind infers from the sense data which cannot distinguish whether it is a rope or snake based on the particular attributes and therefore jumps to the conclusion based on saadRisyam that it is a snake since it is afraid of snakes. It does not think it is an elephant or some other animal. From the seer perspective, it is a snake only and his adrenal glands also respond to that conclusion of the mind. Hence for him, it is a pramaa only not bhramaa.
Let us say, for the argument sake, that he may live the whole life with that knowledge that it is pramaa or valid knowledge. As for as he is concerned the pramaaNa operated since he saw a five long object out there, it was soft when he stepped on it, and is lying in the alley and in tune with what he heard before that there are lot of snakes in that area. 
The question arises for him only if there is a doubt or if there is some contradiction. Only when he goes and reinvestigates using better pramana or better suitable conditions for getting complete attributive content by the senses, then he comes to know based on the additional attributes that it is a rope and not what he thought. The mind now makes a better re-cognition based on the complete attributes that it is indeed a rope.  
Sense-based pramana can give only info that it is rope as part of Iswara sRiShti.
To recognize it is not really rope but it is Brahman that 'I am' comes with better pramaana - Vedanta pramaana - provided the seeker since that knowledge is not attributive but shaastra janyam - for which shraddha on the pramaana is essential. Then only he will know that even the rope is bharma and not pramaa! We can call this a vavahaarika in contrast to paaramaarthika - or just say false knowledge vs real knowledge. 
One important is it is not ignorance that projects snake is the loukika brama or rope in the vyavahaarika - since ignorance is inert. It is the mind supported by chidaabhaasa that projects snake in the first case and rope in the second case. Mind made the judgement call based on the incomplete attributive content of the object.  That it is 5 ft long and soft to touch and is in the alley still correct. Henec satya  anRita mithuneekaraNa remains. 
Ignorance may cover aavaraNa due by bringing incomplete info via senses - However, vikshepa is not by ignorance by the mind with chidaabhaasa that projects that it is a snake than rope. 
Now does one call ignorance itself a cause for aavarana and vikshepa - to make it as bhava ruupa or the mind (which itself is a product of aavarana and vikshepa) has the power of vikshepa. 

My 2c.
Hari Om!Sadananda








   On Saturday, October 28, 2017, 8:30:13 AM GMT+5:30, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote: 

>

Dear Sir,

What you say above is correct from the ultimate standpoint. Shankara has
said in the Adhyasa bhashya that all pramana prameya vayavahara is in the
realm of avidya. However, in vyavahara we do make a distinction between
prama and bhrama. The former is right knowledge, the one that arises due to
a proper pramana being activated as for example, when the eye comprehends a
form. The latter, bhrama, is wrong knowledge or misapprehension, when the
appropriate pramana, instrument, has not generated the knowledge. The
example is: a man imagines a snake in the place of a rope. He has no doubt
contacted a thing there but understood it to be something else. Here the
eye, the pramana, has been unsuccessful in generating the right knowledge.
The reasons could be defective eye, poor or inadequate conditions to
generate the right knowledge etc. So, the prama-bhrama distinction in
vyavahara is there that everyone follows.

regards
subbu

>
>
>
>      From: V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
> vedanta.org>
>  To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-
> vedanta.org>
> Cc: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>  Sent: Friday, 27 October 2017 11:43 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Significance of Mula Avidya
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Ravi Kiran via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:10 AM, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > The Vedanta teaches that knowledge dispels ignorance. Hence, to be
> > > dispelled, such an avidyā has to be an existent, positive, bhāvarūpa.
> >  If
> > > such ignorance is not admitted to be bhāvarūpa, knowledge cannot dispel
> > > anything.
> >
> >
> > In rajju-sarpa or shell-silver bhrama, if sarpa jnAna (in rajju) or
> rajata
> > jnAna (in shell) is accepted as positive bhAvarUpa vastu, how can arising
> > of rajju jnAna or shell jnAna later, dispel the ajnAna vastu, as jnAna is
> > vastu-tantra and not kartru-tantra or kAraka ?
> >
>
> Right knowledge dispels wrong knowledge. When the wrong knowledge 'this is
> a snake' is dispelled, there ceases the (wrong) perception of the snake.
> The person gets the right knowledge, which no doubt is vastu tantra: he has
> known the vastu. rope, there, through the right pramana. The wrong
> knowledge did not arise through any pramana; it is not pramana janya.
>
>
>
> >
> >
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