[Advaita-l] The 'Snake-and-ladder' game - The Spiritual path

[Murali k]

In my eyes, it clearly means cultural appropriation and a way of slowly
taking away the culture surrounding Santana Dharma  so that it is easy to
keep the converted/to be converted flock within their  fold. I trust you
are aware of how christian missionaries operate. What is clear to you is
less so for me. To each his own.

Your anecdote about Sri Ramana , though wonderful, does not add anything to
this. That lady could not compose on her own. Here, they are using Carnatic
compositions  that have been there for ages and using it in a  subversive
manner. Do you equate these two things? :)

 To find an excuse for every transgression  and rationalise it  is
ridiculous.











On 9 August 2018 at 17:44, D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ <dvnsarma at gmail.com>
wrote:

> That clearly means that people of that religion find resonance of the
> devotional sentiments expressed in our songs
> to their own mental state. After all the idea of devotion is the same in
> all religions. Only the names of gods differ.
>
> let me relate an anecdote. Before Ramanaa Mahrshi a lady started singing a
> number of songs addressed to Ramana . Later on it was found that she was
> singing
> the songs of a devotee of Rama, replacing the name of Rama with that of
> Ramana.  When this was made known to Ramana, he said "she connot compose
> something on her own. But when everybody is singing she also wanted to
> sing. So she sang those songs replacing Rama with Ramana. Rama or Ramana,
> how does it matter."
> regards,
> Sarma.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 5:18 PM Murali k <methusala8 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mr Sarma,
>>
>> Thanks for your link. Normally, I would ignore any link posted in a
>> leftist-centric irrational pseudo-newspaper like the Wire. But  as you have
>> posted it here,
>> let me write a reply to your post.
>>
>> The controversy is NOT about Carnatic singers christian songs.  It is
>> about replacing names of Rama and Krishna with that of Jesus in classical
>> Carnatic compositions.. That is the problem. This is something which this
>> article that you posted did not cover, very conveniently. It is easier to
>> run with "Vile media campaign' rather than the 'Vile side of Christian
>> Cultural appropriation'.And this newspaper's hatred for Brahmins knows no
>> bounds. One only has to read this article to realise it. Were you able to
>> pick up the hatred? Or do you doubt that too?
>>
>> And, as for you quoting all these musicians, none of them, to the best of
>> my knowledge, replaced Krishna and Rama with Jesus in Carnatic
>> compositions.. Correct me if I am wrong. And them being ardent devotees of
>> Hindu gods does not matter to the topic at hand. I wonder why you brought
>> it up.
>>
>> I can write about how missionaries can use these recordings for their own
>> benefit, but I am sure you can connect the dots.
>>
>> As I do not want to Hijack this thread, This will be my last post on
>> this topic.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Murali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9 August 2018 at 16:04, D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ <dvnsarma at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> To ne fair the other side.
>>> https://thewire.in/communalism/in-tamil-nadu-non-
>>> hindu-carnatic-musicians-are-being-othered
>>>
>>> Bismilla Khan is the Asthana Vidwan of Kashi Viswanath Temple.
>>> Nadaswara vidvan Shiek China Moula was a great devoteeof Lord Ranganatha
>>> of Srirangam.
>>> Abraham Pandithar wrote a voluminous book on Carnatic music
>>> K.J.Jesudas is devotee of Guruvayur Appan.
>>> regards,
>>> Sarma.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 12:23 PM Murali k via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Jaldharji,
>>>>
>>>> And, Speaking of Cultural Appropriation, we have this :
>>>>
>>>> https://mahaperiyavaa.blog/2018/08/07/shame-on-all-you-
>>>> singers/#comment-54246
>>>>
>>>> Very unfortunate.  My apologies if my post is off-topic.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Murali
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7 August 2018 at 11:49, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Thu, 26 Jul 2018, V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Copied and pasted from FB page of Ajay Khemka
>>>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ajay.khemka.75?fref=mentions>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The British (intentionally to break our rich culture & education
>>>> >> system) later named it Snakes and Ladders instead of the original
>>>> Moksha
>>>> >> Patam.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > When I was growing up in England we went on a school trip to the
>>>> Museum of
>>>> > Childhood (part of the Victoria and Albert Museum) in London.  They
>>>> had an
>>>> > exhibition of childrens games through the ages and it was there I
>>>> first
>>>> > learned about the Indian origins of Snakes and Ladders.  The early
>>>> > victorian versions clearly acknowledged the games Indian origin.  (I
>>>> > remember one was subtitled "The Hindoo Game of Virtue and Vice.")
>>>> They were
>>>> > decorated in Indian motifs (albeit stereotypical ones such as
>>>> elephants and
>>>> > snake charmers.) Yes they altered it to fit Christian morality but
>>>> the idea
>>>> > that it was some sinister plot is pure paranoia. Such overwrought
>>>> reactions
>>>> > are actually counter-productive because then no one will take the real
>>>> > cases of cultural appropriation  seriously.
>>>> >
>>>> > Unfortunately, they do not seem to have made images from their
>>>> collection
>>>> > available on the net but this link:
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.vam.ac.uk/moc/collections/snakes-and-ladders/
>>>> >
>>>> > gives a short introduction.  As you can see the Hindu origins are not
>>>> at
>>>> > all obscured.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
>>>> >
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>>