[Advaita-l] The 'Snake-and-ladder' game - The Spiritual path

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:39 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula, <
raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> One example of a Hindu relating to Christ in his own liberal Hindu
> advaitic way which is totally unacceptable to the followers of the Church,
> is in Swami Vivekananda who was emphatic that Christ never existed viz.,
> there was never any historical personality called Christ but he was still
> able to empathize with select ideas drawn from the Christian tradition.
>
> Needless to say no practitioner of Biblical church based Christianity
> would ever endorse such a Hindu view of the Bible.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:26 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula, <
> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Sarma Garu
>> There is a difference between empathizing with any sensible ideas in
>> different religious traditions with compassion which is unexceptionable,
>> and on the other hand confusion about these matters and I request you to
>> avoid confusion in the name of compassion.
>>
>> I am well aware of the gyAneshvara episode. What is the logical
>> connection you are trying to establish? That since the Vedas were chanted
>> by a buffalo, they are not apauruSheya? How do you say that?
>>
>>
>> In fact your statement that the Vedic mantras are born of "experiential"
>> knowledge is a significant error in thinking - if anything  it's the other
>> way round (ignoring for the moment the false binary of cognitive vs.
>> experiential). This is a common mistake to assume  that first there is
>> knowledge and later  Vedic mantras  were "composed" articulating that
>> knowledge  . I request you to carefully look at the idea of vedic shabda
>> pramANam being required even for the earliest acharyas.
>>
>> Please indicate what is sectarian in what I wrote instead of making
>> sweeping generalizations.  You may need stop looking at the Vedas through
>> preconceptions from physics. For that you may have to step out of the "I am
>> a physicist" role and stick to Yukti or reason all right, but without any
>> preconceived physics baggage,  in understanding the Veda.
>>
>> There is no idea of Ishvara in Islam and Christianity . Thats just a
>> plain statement of fact. All you have to do is explain what Ishvara means
>> and ask any pastor or maulvi if Allah or God or anything similar exists
>> according to them and they would regard the idea of Ishvara as blasphemous
>> and opposed to the spirit of their texts.  If you don't wish to see this
>> elephant in the room, nobody can help.
>>
>> Many well-meaning but confused Hindus think that the equation of Ishvara
>> with Allah or God is acceptable to the followers of the Bible or Quran.
>> They would find it sacrilegious.
>>
>>  It's a different story that as a Hindu, the Advaita tradition endows us
>> with the intellectual and hermeneutical tools to empathize with different
>> forms of worship and  also choose to re-interpret and recast *any text of
>> any religious tradition of the world* in my own peculiar idiosyncratic
>> liberal advaitic way based on the 3 gunas etc etc. Thats fine but that's a
>> different topic.
>>
>> Om
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 3:24 PM D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ, <
>> dvnsarma at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Raghavji.
>>> A jnani can make a baffallo recite what you consider as sacred and
>>> apaurusheya vedas.
>>> When traditionalists started harassing his father, Sant Jnaneswar
>>> exactly did that. We hear that, that baffallo
>>> continued to recite vedas till it died. Come out of the narrow and
>>> sectarian modes of thinking. It neither helps you nor helps others.
>>> regards,
>>> Sarma.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:17 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You wrote
>>>>
>>>> This point is already addressed. If buffalo can be treated as Ishwara,
>>>> then
>>>> so can Allah and Christ.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Nope. The buffalo was treated as Ishvara for a specific Adhikari who
>>>> fulfilled the followings conditions, not just everybody. You are totally
>>>> ignoring the following
>>>> 1. He the student had a pre-existing  great love for the form of the
>>>> buffalo
>>>> 2. He was under the guidance of an accomplished advaita teacher.
>>>> 3. He wanted to overcome his obsession about the Buffalo and instead
>>>> wants
>>>> to dwell upon nirguNa brahman
>>>> 4. The teacher *teaches about  Brahman first* and asks the student to
>>>> grow
>>>> up and let go of his dualistic obsessions  which the student understands
>>>> and accepts but his emotions sometimes are still centred on his past
>>>> obsession viz., the buffalo.
>>>> 5.Then alone he is asked to meditate that whenever his mind
>>>> spontaneously
>>>> and obsessively thinks of  the Buffalo, then he is asked by the Guru to
>>>> direct his attention to the very adhiShtAnam the truth of even that
>>>> form of
>>>> the Buffalo and thus reject the buffalo form as unreal and successfully
>>>> dwell on that nirguNa  Brahman.
>>>> In the above five points you can replace the word 'Buffalo' with any
>>>> other
>>>> form which is creating an obstacle fir the student in dwelling upon
>>>> Formless Brahman.
>>>>  I am going to end this discussion here. Because your whole argument, i
>>>> am
>>>> convinced, is because you felt hurt and have taken offence to the
>>>> article
>>>> about the Panchadashi where its written that even the Buffalo is a valid
>>>> locus for meditation upon Brahman.
>>>>
>>>> If you disagree with the Panchadashi or if you claim that the author
>>>> Vidyaranya is wrong because according to you he is saying in effect that
>>>> (these are your confused words)
>>>>  If buffalo can be treated as Ishwara, then so can Allah and Christ.
>>>> It shows your misunderstanding of the panchdashI.
>>>>
>>>> Generally who are very devoted to a particular form of the Lord like
>>>> Vishnu, Krishna etc see a red rag in such advaitic ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thu 9 Aug, 2018, 11:37 PM Kalyan via Advaita-l, <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > //The word devata and their worship such as Rama etc.,  is clearly
>>>> talked
>>>> > of
>>>> > in shAstra. If you claim that Allah and Jesus qualify to be called
>>>> devatas
>>>> > , please show how. The onus is on you to prove Allah and Jesus can be
>>>> > called devatas as per the advaitic tradition.//
>>>> >
>>>> > This point is already addressed. If buffalo can be treated as Ishwara,
>>>> > then so can Allah and Christ.
>>>> > Here is a link about Sri Ramakrishna, and Christ -
>>>> > http://www.spiritualbee.com/posts/sri-ramakrishna-vision-of-jesus/
>>>> >
>>>> >
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