[Advaita-l] The 'Snake-and-ladder' game - The Spiritual path

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 5:26 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula, <
raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Sarma Garu
> There is a difference between empathizing with any sensible ideas in
> different religious traditions with compassion which is unexceptionable,
> and on the other hand confusion about these matters and I request you to
> avoid confusion in the name of compassion.
>
> I am well aware of the gyAneshvara episode. What is the logical connection
> you are trying to establish? That since the Vedas were chanted by a
> buffalo, they are not apauruSheya? How do you say that?
>
>
> In fact your statement that the Vedic mantras are born of "experiential"
> knowledge is a significant error in thinking - if anything  it's the other
> way round (ignoring for the moment the false binary of cognitive vs.
> experiential). This is a common mistake to assume  that first there is
> knowledge and later  Vedic mantras  were "composed" articulating that
> knowledge  . I request you to carefully look at the idea of vedic shabda
> pramANam being required even for the earliest acharyas.
>
> Please indicate what is sectarian in what I wrote instead of making
> sweeping generalizations.  You may need stop looking at the Vedas through
> preconceptions from physics. For that you may have to step out of the "I am
> a physicist" role and stick to Yukti or reason all right, but without any
> preconceived physics baggage,  in understanding the Veda.
>
> There is no idea of Ishvara in Islam and Christianity . Thats just a plain
> statement of fact. All you have to do is explain what Ishvara means and ask
> any pastor or maulvi if Allah or God or anything similar exists according
> to them and they would regard the idea of Ishvara as blasphemous and
> opposed to the spirit of their texts.  If you don't wish to see this
> elephant in the room, nobody can help.
>
> Many well-meaning but confused Hindus think that the equation of Ishvara
> with Allah or God is acceptable to the followers of the Bible or Quran.
> They would find it sacrilegious.
>
>  It's a different story that as a Hindu, the Advaita tradition endows us
> with the intellectual and hermeneutical tools to empathize with different
> forms of worship and  also choose to re-interpret and recast *any text of
> any religious tradition of the world* in my own peculiar idiosyncratic
> liberal advaitic way based on the 3 gunas etc etc. Thats fine but that's a
> different topic.
>
> Om
>
>
>
>
> On Fri 10 Aug, 2018, 3:24 PM D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ, <
> dvnsarma at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Raghavji.
>> A jnani can make a baffallo recite what you consider as sacred and
>> apaurusheya vedas.
>> When traditionalists started harassing his father, Sant Jnaneswar exactly
>> did that. We hear that, that baffallo
>> continued to recite vedas till it died. Come out of the narrow and
>> sectarian modes of thinking. It neither helps you nor helps others.
>> regards,
>> Sarma.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:17 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> You wrote
>>>
>>> This point is already addressed. If buffalo can be treated as Ishwara,
>>> then
>>> so can Allah and Christ.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Nope. The buffalo was treated as Ishvara for a specific Adhikari who
>>> fulfilled the followings conditions, not just everybody. You are totally
>>> ignoring the following
>>> 1. He the student had a pre-existing  great love for the form of the
>>> buffalo
>>> 2. He was under the guidance of an accomplished advaita teacher.
>>> 3. He wanted to overcome his obsession about the Buffalo and instead
>>> wants
>>> to dwell upon nirguNa brahman
>>> 4. The teacher *teaches about  Brahman first* and asks the student to
>>> grow
>>> up and let go of his dualistic obsessions  which the student understands
>>> and accepts but his emotions sometimes are still centred on his past
>>> obsession viz., the buffalo.
>>> 5.Then alone he is asked to meditate that whenever his mind spontaneously
>>> and obsessively thinks of  the Buffalo, then he is asked by the Guru to
>>> direct his attention to the very adhiShtAnam the truth of even that form
>>> of
>>> the Buffalo and thus reject the buffalo form as unreal and successfully
>>> dwell on that nirguNa  Brahman.
>>> In the above five points you can replace the word 'Buffalo' with any
>>> other
>>> form which is creating an obstacle fir the student in dwelling upon
>>> Formless Brahman.
>>>  I am going to end this discussion here. Because your whole argument, i
>>> am
>>> convinced, is because you felt hurt and have taken offence to the article
>>> about the Panchadashi where its written that even the Buffalo is a valid
>>> locus for meditation upon Brahman.
>>>
>>> If you disagree with the Panchadashi or if you claim that the author
>>> Vidyaranya is wrong because according to you he is saying in effect that
>>> (these are your confused words)
>>>  If buffalo can be treated as Ishwara, then so can Allah and Christ.
>>> It shows your misunderstanding of the panchdashI.
>>>
>>> Generally who are very devoted to a particular form of the Lord like
>>> Vishnu, Krishna etc see a red rag in such advaitic ideas.
>>>
>>> Om
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thu 9 Aug, 2018, 11:37 PM Kalyan via Advaita-l, <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > //The word devata and their worship such as Rama etc.,  is clearly
>>> talked
>>> > of
>>> > in shAstra. If you claim that Allah and Jesus qualify to be called
>>> devatas
>>> > , please show how. The onus is on you to prove Allah and Jesus can be
>>> > called devatas as per the advaitic tradition.//
>>> >
>>> > This point is already addressed. If buffalo can be treated as Ishwara,
>>> > then so can Allah and Christ.
>>> > Here is a link about Sri Ramakrishna, and Christ -
>>> > http://www.spiritualbee.com/posts/sri-ramakrishna-vision-of-jesus/
>>> >
>>> >
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>>