[Advaita-l] The 'Snake-and-ladder' game - The Spiritual path

[V Subrahmanian]

http://talkandcomment.com/p/97870e1a034f4ca9f60fec65 (voice note)

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:21 PM Aditya Kumar <kumaraditya22 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> I already mentioned that Shankara talks about anubhava but in altogether
> different way. Brahma-anubhava is different from ordinary anubhava as
> Brahman is self-luminous. Hence Brahma-anubhuti has to be brought about by
> cognition or intuition. In other words the correct cognition itself is
> termed anubhava/experience. Whoever knows brahman becomes brahman. For this
> cognition/experience, the mahavakyas are central and not any sadhana other
> than that. Everything else is just an aid for Shankara. In other words, the
> only way of 'knowing oneself' is by understanding the implied meaning of
> Shruti/mahavakyas. However, Ramana's approach takes the ordinary meaning of
> anubhava so as to mean ordinary experience like 'death experience' as a
> source for his achievement of Moksha. This is more closer to Patanjali's
> Yoga school or a Buddhist Nirvana than Advaita of Shankara.
>
> On Friday, 10 August, 2018, 10:45:50 PM IST, V Subrahmanian <
> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://talkandcomment.com/p/b00987223fbd093e49085a72 (voice note)
>
> ब्रह्मसूत्रभाष्यम्प्रथमोऽध्यायःप्रथमः पादः सूत्रम् २ - भाष्यम्
>
> ………श्रुत्यादय एव प्रमाणं ब्रह्मजिज्ञासायाम् । किन्तु
> श्रुत्यादयोऽनुभवादयश्च यथासम्भवमिह प्रमाणम् , अनुभवावसानत्वाद्भूतवस्तुविषयत्वाच्च
> ब्रह्मज्ञानस्य । कर्तव्ये हि विषये नानुभवापेक्षास्तीति श्रुत्यादीनामेव
> प्रामाण्यं स्यात्………
>
>
> ब्रह्मसूत्रभाष्यम्द्वितीयोऽध्यायःप्रथमः पादः सूत्रम् ४ - भाष्यम्
>
> ………चादृष्टमर्थं समर्पयन्ती युक्तिरनुभवस्य सन्निकृष्यते, विप्रकृष्यते तु
> श्रुतिः, ऐतिह्यमात्रेण स्वार्थाभिधानात् ; अनुभवावसानं च
> ब्रह्मविज्ञानमविद्याया निवर्तकं मोक्षसाधनं च दृष्टफलतयेष्यते ; श्रुतिरपि
> —………
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:18 PM Aditya Kumar <kumaraditya22 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thank you for your voice message Subramanianji. So you have argued in
> favour of Ramana endorsing Shruti pramana. This might be true and I am not
> at all denying that. However, from my understanding, Ramana Maharshi gives
> more importance to experience over accumulation of scriptural knowledge.
> Very similar to Buddhist insistence of meditation. They say that scriptural
> knowledge is useless until you experience it yourself and thereby derive
> direct knowledge. We might confuse aparokshanubhuti of Shankara with this.
> However, in Shankara's view, Moksha is cognitive and not experiential. So
> Moksha according to Shankara is perfect understanding of Shruti vakyas.
> Hence, until that happens, there is shravana, manana and nidhidhyasa. Hence
> scriptures are indispensable for Shankara. However, in Ramana's approach,
> Scriptures have to dispensed off even if you are a beginner because it is
> not at all required to 'experience one's own self'.
>
> Further, whether Ramana based his experience on Shruti or Tamil Shaiva
> scriptures or the Bible is immaterial when Moksha is not an experience at
> all, for it were an experience, it would be limited by time and other
> adjuncts. If Ramana experienced Moksha, there is a triad of
> 'experiencer'-experienced and the experience.  Who experiences what and
> through what?
>
> On Friday, 10 August, 2018, 11:16:30 AM IST, V Subrahmanian <
> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://talkandcomment.com/p/3b40f7c58b6be9c48a940ba0 (voice note)
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:15 AM Aditya Kumar via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> I partly agree with you. However Ramana himself is/was a liberal
> practitioner. Basically he is saying that he approached the whole Hindu
> concept of Moksha through personal experience and not by scriptural
> authority. In that sense, the practicality of such personal experience
> would be similar to all religions, to all cultures etc because you need not
> put faith on validity of scriptures at all. Hence they claim it is non
> dogmatic as it is experiential knowledge and not something derived from
> some scriptures.  However there is a whole other debate whether Advaitic
> Moksha is experiential or cognitive. Further, a Hindu will always claim the
> ShAstra yOnitvat of the Advaitic truth, hence binding into a religious
> belief.
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 10/8/18, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] The 'Snake-and-ladder' game - The Spiritual path
>  To: "Aditya Kumar" <kumaraditya22 at yahoo.com>, "A discussion group for
> Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  Date: Friday, 10 August, 2018, 4:17 AM
>
>  No one has any
>  issues with giving advaitic interpretations to selected
>  statements such as "The kingdom of heaven is within you
>  " or "anaa al haqq" etc etc. But that can
>  hardly amount to "endorsing  Christianity," with
>  all its the central dogmas of those texts. Also we have such
>  interpretations are endorsed by only a very small  liberal
>  section of practitioners of those traditions. They are only
>  a advaitic Hindu interpretation of the Bible rather than a
>  Christian interpretation of that very text. In fact we will
>  be able to see occasional shades of Advaita in so many
>  places and can empathise with those. What of that? That does
>  not mean Sri Ramana puts all religious views on the same
>  level.
>
>
>  On Fri 10
>  Aug, 2018, 9:21 AM Aditya Kumar via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  wrote:
>  Even
>  Ramana Maharshi has no issues with christianity. In fact he
>  endorses it because the Advaitic concept is beautifully
>  explained in the Bible. Pls see link below :
>
>
>
>  http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=5060.0
>
>
>
>
>
>  --------------------------------------------
>
>  On Thu, 9/8/18, Kalyan via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> >
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>   Subject: [Advaita-l]  The 'Snake-and-ladder' game
>  - The Spiritual path
>
>   To: "A. Discussion Group for Advaita Vedanta"
>  <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>
>   Cc: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>
>
>   Date: Thursday, 9 August, 2018, 8:09 PM
>
>
>
>   More here on other religions from Sringeri
>
>   guru -
>
>   http://svbf.org/thought-of-the-day
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      - Similarly a seeker should
>
>   apply his God given gifts on the stable background of
>  his
>
>   God chosen faith. So a Hindu should try to become a
>  better
>
>   Hindu, a Muslim a better Muslim, a Buddhist a better
>
>   Buddhist and a Christian a better Christian. –
>
>   Chandrasekhara Bharati Mahaswamigal
>
>      - Who are we to sit in
>
>   judgement over other religious teachers and religions?
>  Waste
>
>   not your precious life in judging others. Use it to
>  regulate
>
>   your life and purify yourself. – Chandrasekhara
>  Bharati
>
>   Mahaswamigal
>
>      - There must be perfect
>
>   equality – each man to his religion – unmolested by
>
>   anybody and every facility guaranteed to him to practice
>  his
>
>   own religious pursuit. – Chandrasekhara Bharati
>
>   Mahaswamigal
>
>      - Every facility must be given
>
>   for a Hindu to live the life of a Hindu, a Muslim to
>  live
>
>   the life of a Muslim, a Christian the life of a
>  Christian,
>
>   and so on. – Chandrasekhara Bharati Mahaswamigal
>
>      - No one on earth, howsoever
>
>   powerful, has any right to compel the people to change
>  or
>
>   break their religious laws. No one has the right to
>
>   interfere in the religious matters of another. –
>
>   Chandrasekhara Bharati Mahaswamigal
>
>   _______________________________________________
>
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