[Advaita-l] Buddha confirmed to preexisting social norms of the Vedic society of his time

[Kalyan]

//I was only observing the insistence of even the earliest Buddhists that the Bodhisattvas could be born only in a brahmana and Kshatriya womb and cannot be in a mixed caste etc. Where is the egalitarianism in this? //

Dear Sri Raghav. Please correct me if I am wrong. I think you are quoting from Lalitavistara sutra, which is a Mahayana sutra. Mahayana emerged around 500 years after Buddha and is by no means qualified to be called as early Buddhism. Once again, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks and Regards
Kalyan


--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 3/19/18, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Buddha confirmed to preexisting social norms of the Vedic society of his time
 To: "Kalyan" <kalyan_kg at yahoo.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 Date: Monday, March 19, 2018, 6:29 AM
 
 Dear Sri
 KalyanYes I too say that things are not so
 simple. 
 I was only
 observing the insistence of even the earliest Buddhists that
 the Bodhisattvas could be born only in a brahmana and
 Kshatriya womb and cannot be in a mixed caste etc. Where is
 the egalitarianism in this? 
 In contrast, Vedic acceptance of
 Bhagavan Vyasa of mixed caste as a great aadhikaarika
 puruSha would be make it more egalitarian than even Buddhism
 atleast in certain contexts.  Therefore we cannot rush to
 conclusions about Buddha's egalitarianism vis-a-vis
 Vedic social norms.
 The so-called egalitarianism of
 Buddhism was  conditional and did not extend many
 privileges  to the other castes such as cart-makers and
 pipe makers as per the earlier quote i
 mentioned.
 Also the
 Buddha quote - 'anyone from the four castes
 who becomes a monk, an Arahant who has destroyed the
 corruptions, who has lived the life, done what had to be
 done, laid down the burden,819 reached the highest goal,
 destroyed the fetter of becoming, and become emancipated
 through super-knowledge — he is proclaimed supreme by
 virtue of Dhamma and not of non-Dhamma.' is no more
 egalitarian than
  Sri Adi Shankara saying in
 the maniShA panchakam that'If a person
 has attained the firm knowledge that he is not
 an object of perception, but is that pure
 consciousness which shines clearly in the states
 of waking, dream and deep sleep, and which, as
 the witness of the whole universe, dwells in
 all bodies from that of the Creator Brahma to
 that of the ant, then he is my Guru,**
 irrespective of whether he is an outcaste or
 a Brahmana. This is my
 conviction.**
 OmRaghav
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 On Mon 19 Mar,
 2018, 10:24 AM Kalyan via Advaita-l, <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
 wrote:
 Dear Sri Raghav,
 
 
 
 The issue is not so simple. The Buddha strongly denounced
 the superiority of the brahmins over other castes. Please
 see below -
 
 
 
 https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.093.than.html
 
 
 
 Above is from Assalayana sutta. (Incidentally, the above
 also shows that Vedic people used to shave their heads. So
 all arguments that this is purely a Buddhistic practice,
 fall apart.)
 
 
 
 The Buddha also accepted people from 4 castes as his
 disciples. Below is from Agganna sutta where Buddha once
 again denounces the caste system and superiority of brahmins
 -
 
 
 
 http://www.palicanon.org/en/sutta-pitaka/transcribed-suttas/majjhima-nikaya/142-mn-88-bhitika-sutta-the-cloak.html
 
 
 
 //‘Now since both dark and bright qualities, which are
 blamed and praised by the wise, are scattered
 indiscriminately among the four castes, the wise do not
 recognise the claim about the Brahmin caste being the
 highest. Why is that? Because, Vasettha, anyone from the
 four castes who becomes a monk, an Arahant who has destroyed
 the corruptions, who has lived the life, done what had to be
 done, laid down the burden,819 reached the highest goal,
 destroyed the fetter of becoming, and become emancipated
 through super-knowledge — he is proclaimed supreme by
 virtue of Dhamma and not of non-Dhamma.//
 
 
 
 Another case in point is of one of Buddha's disciples
 Upali, who was a barber. This example also goes to show that
 the Buddha admitted people from all castes. Please see below
 link.
 
 
 
 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upali
 
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