[Advaita-l] The Foundations of Adhyāsa - 8 (The Three States) -Mixing of Reference states

[H S Chandramouli]

Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,

Just sharing my understanding on some of the points.

Just a preamble. No doubt, jnAna is attained only through the mind. The
result is that identification of the ‘ I ’ sense with the BMI is weakened
greatly in the waking state. This is because there is an undertone of the “
Knowledge “ gained which is never forgotten, but its full effect is
camaflouged by the force of residual vAsanAs and prArabdha which come to
the fore. Hence the waking experience continues even for the jnAni but with
a weakened identification with the BMI.  For an ajnAni , the identification
of  the ‘ I ‘ sense with the BMI is very strong in the waking state.

In the dream state, this identification is weak both for a jnAni as well as
for an ajnAni. Even so, the strength of such weak identification could be
very different for the two.

In sushupti, this identification is absent for both. But the mind is
resolved and is unmanifest.

These three states of  experience are available for both.

However there is a fourth state of experience available for the jnAni
alone. And in this state also, there is no identification with BMI. But the
mind is not resolved and the experience is through the mind only. It is in
this state that Brahman is “ experienced “ by the jnAni in its aspect of
and as Ananda.

With this background, some observations on the points made in your post.

Points 9,10 and 11 refer to the waking state. But point 8 is a mix up of
states.

<<  8. The realization involves clear and abiding knowledge (jnaana nishTa)
in the mind only that ‘I am not this BMI, but I am that totality that
includes this BMI and the world, and in the process Iswara also. >>,

jnAna nishTa refers to fourth state in which there is no knowledge of the
form  ‘I am not this BMI, but I am that totality that includes this BMI and
the world, and in the process Iswara also’, there is ONLY  Ananda. Leaving
out  jnAnanishTa, rest of the statement pertains to waking state.

Reg  << 13. Does the jnaani while dreaming has the knowledge of his true
state? – Now – The discussion seems to shift from one reference to other.
>From the point of jnaanam, that question is irrelevant since there are no
dream states to answer – ekam eva adviteeyam. We can only answer from the
BMI reference. >>,

There is no change in reference. Even in the waking state, jnAni is not
aware of his status as a jnAni during vyavahAra. He does have a weak
identification with the BMI. So is the case during dream state.

All other points need to be addressed with reference to this strength of
identification with the BMI.

Pranams and Regards

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On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 8:53 AM kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

>
> PraNAms
>
> I find most of the discussions seem to stem from the mixing of
> reference-states. I am just summarizing some aspects based on my
> observations.
>
>
>
> 1. In the tureeyam point, there pure satyam-jnaanam-anantam -one without a
> second - Homogeneous mass of pure sat-chit-ananda.
>
>
>
> 2. No descriptions are possible – ‘na vaak gacchati,  na manaH’;
> ‘yadgatvaana nivartante apraapya manasaa saH’
>
>
>
> 3. End of the discussion from that reference.
>
>
>
> 4. Hence, all the discussions rest in vyavahaara state. From that point
> only, we can talk about jnaani, jnaanam, ajnaani and ajnaanam, etc.
>
>
>
> 5. The Upanishads come down to the level of ajnaani and advise him to
> contemplate in the direction pointed out by ‘tureeyam’ described, using his
> prepared mind – ‘…advaitam ..sa vijneyaH’. These are lakshaNa vaakyaas or
> indicatory definitions.
>
>
>
> 6. Jnaani is the one who by contemplation in the direction pointed out by
> the scriptures realizes that the self that he is, is the self in all. aham
> brahma asmi.
>
>
>
> 7. He realized using his mind only as there is no other instrument
> available, or needed.
>
>
>
> 8. The realization involves clear and abiding knowledge (jnaana nishTa) in
> the mind only that ‘I am not this BMI, but I am that totality that includes
> this BMI and the world, and in the process Iswara also.
>
>
>
> 9. Being Brahman, he also recognizes from that reference he is neither
> doer nor an enjoyer, while still at the BMI level due past habitual
> tendencies the actions and the enjoyments go on.
>
>
>
> 10. Hence from the Brahman reference he can declare – akartaaham
> abhoktaaham .., na mano budhi ahankaara chitaani na aham, etc, etc.
>
>
>
> 11. At the same time, while transacting in the world, he does use his
> local BMI and depending on its capacities performs the action. The actions
> depend on the praarabda of the BMI which has two components – one coming
> from the individual remnant vaasanas and the other coming from samashTi.
> For example, BMI may continue to fulfill the demands of the disciples who
> need the appropriate teacher for their evolution. He may write bhaashaays
> and pray the Lord to bless this endeavor.
>
>
>
> 12. Does the jnaani dream? The question can only be answered from the
> point of BMI only since from the point of pure sat chit ananda that
> question is irrelevant. What kind of dream he will have? Dreams are mostly
> due to the suppressions/oppressions in the waking state. The same criterion
> is valid for the BMI of the Jnaani also. What kind of suppressions and
> oppressions jnaanis BMI will have. They depend on the circumstances that
> particular BMI undergoes – No universal rule can be applied.
>
>
>
> 13. Does the jnaani while dreaming has the knowledge of his true state? –
> Now – The discussion seems to shift from one reference to other. >From the
> point of jnaanam, that question is irrelevant since there are no dream
> states to answer – ekam eva adviteeyam. We can only answer from the BMI
> reference.
>
>
>
> The BMI that dreams may or may not remember the waking state knowledge
> like any other BMIs since the dream world is projected based on what was
> suppressed or oppressed. He may dream of the disciple’s problems or the
> BMI’s problems in the past depending on its memory status. The dreamer BMI
> of a jnaani may not remember the status of his waker BMI just like the
> state of ajnaani. These problems belong to prakriti only.
>
>
>
> Does that BMI has still knowledge of the absolute state? – The dream
> itself arises first when the intellect is suppressed to some extent and
> when the mind projects. If the discriminative intellect remains sharp, then
> that BMI may not be in the dream state at all. Nithya – anitya vastu viveka
> is not fully available for a dreamer BMI while in dream. For every BMI, the
> falsity of the dream is recognized by the waker BMI and not by dreamer BMI.
> Dream is not a dream while one is the dream. This is the problem with the
> BMI and nothing to do with jnaani or ajnaani. ajnaani may claim that I did
> not know while jnaani may claim that ‘this BMI did not know’.
>
>
>
> 14. Jnaanam involves only the knowledge of the absolute by the BMI, which
> was gained by his prepared mind using Viveka. With respect to the
> transactional world, the knowledge of the BMIs of both jaani or anjnaani
> will still be limited. Jnaani’s BMI maybe sharp enough to learn quickly on
> a transactional need base. It is similar to a very good actor able to play
> any role as demanded by the script on the stage.
>
>
>
> 15. Therefore, does jnaani dreams and what kind of dreams and does he have
> the knowledge of absolute truth etc., have no meaning from the point of the
> jnaani’s reference. However, from the point of BMI’s reference, it belongs
> to prakriti and all modifications of prakriti depend on the driving forces
> which are vaasanas – for jnaani’s BMI it is the remnant vaasanaas that is
> keeping the BMI to continue.
>
>
>
> 16 In summary, as long as we do not mix up the reference states from which
> the topic is being discussed, there should not be any confusion.
>
>
>
> Hari Om!
>
> Sadananda
>
>
>
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