[Advaita-l] The Foundations of Adhyāsa - 8 (The Three States) -Mixing of Reference states

[H S Chandramouli]

I have interpreted jnAnanishTa as the state in which the jnAni is " abiding
" in Brahman. Other interpretations are also seen.

Regards

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On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 12:48 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Pranams Sri Sadananda Ji,
>
> Just sharing my understanding on some of the points.
>
> Just a preamble. No doubt, jnAna is attained only through the mind. The
> result is that identification of the ‘ I ’ sense with the BMI is weakened
> greatly in the waking state. This is because there is an undertone of the “
> Knowledge “ gained which is never forgotten, but its full effect is
> camaflouged by the force of residual vAsanAs and prArabdha which come to
> the fore. Hence the waking experience continues even for the jnAni but with
> a weakened identification with the BMI.  For an ajnAni , the identification
> of  the ‘ I ‘ sense with the BMI is very strong in the waking state.
>
> In the dream state, this identification is weak both for a jnAni as well
> as for an ajnAni. Even so, the strength of such weak identification could
> be very different for the two.
>
> In sushupti, this identification is absent for both. But the mind is
> resolved and is unmanifest.
>
> These three states of  experience are available for both.
>
> However there is a fourth state of experience available for the jnAni
> alone. And in this state also, there is no identification with BMI. But the
> mind is not resolved and the experience is through the mind only. It is in
> this state that Brahman is “ experienced “ by the jnAni in its aspect of
> and as Ananda.
>
> With this background, some observations on the points made in your post.
>
> Points 9,10 and 11 refer to the waking state. But point 8 is a mix up of
> states.
>
> <<  8. The realization involves clear and abiding knowledge (jnaana
> nishTa) in the mind only that ‘I am not this BMI, but I am that totality
> that includes this BMI and the world, and in the process Iswara also. >>,
>
> jnAna nishTa refers to fourth state in which there is no knowledge of the
> form  ‘I am not this BMI, but I am that totality that includes this BMI and
> the world, and in the process Iswara also’, there is ONLY  Ananda. Leaving
> out  jnAnanishTa, rest of the statement pertains to waking state.
>
> Reg  << 13. Does the jnaani while dreaming has the knowledge of his true
> state? – Now – The discussion seems to shift from one reference to other.
> From the point of jnaanam, that question is irrelevant since there are no
> dream states to answer – ekam eva adviteeyam. We can only answer from the
> BMI reference. >>,
>
> There is no change in reference. Even in the waking state, jnAni is not
> aware of his status as a jnAni during vyavahAra. He does have a weak
> identification with the BMI. So is the case during dream state.
>
> All other points need to be addressed with reference to this strength of
> identification with the BMI.
>
> Pranams and Regards
>
>
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> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 8:53 AM kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> PraNAms
>>
>> I find most of the discussions seem to stem from the mixing of
>> reference-states. I am just summarizing some aspects based on my
>> observations.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. In the tureeyam point, there pure satyam-jnaanam-anantam -one without
>> a second - Homogeneous mass of pure sat-chit-ananda.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. No descriptions are possible – ‘na vaak gacchati,  na manaH’;
>> ‘yadgatvaana nivartante apraapya manasaa saH’
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. End of the discussion from that reference.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4. Hence, all the discussions rest in vyavahaara state. From that point
>> only, we can talk about jnaani, jnaanam, ajnaani and ajnaanam, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> 5. The Upanishads come down to the level of ajnaani and advise him to
>> contemplate in the direction pointed out by ‘tureeyam’ described, using his
>> prepared mind – ‘…advaitam ..sa vijneyaH’. These are lakshaNa vaakyaas or
>> indicatory definitions.
>>
>>
>>
>> 6. Jnaani is the one who by contemplation in the direction pointed out by
>> the scriptures realizes that the self that he is, is the self in all. aham
>> brahma asmi.
>>
>>
>>
>> 7. He realized using his mind only as there is no other instrument
>> available, or needed.
>>
>>
>>
>> 8. The realization involves clear and abiding knowledge (jnaana nishTa)
>> in the mind only that ‘I am not this BMI, but I am that totality that
>> includes this BMI and the world, and in the process Iswara also.
>>
>>
>>
>> 9. Being Brahman, he also recognizes from that reference he is neither
>> doer nor an enjoyer, while still at the BMI level due past habitual
>> tendencies the actions and the enjoyments go on.
>>
>>
>>
>> 10. Hence from the Brahman reference he can declare – akartaaham
>> abhoktaaham .., na mano budhi ahankaara chitaani na aham, etc, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> 11. At the same time, while transacting in the world, he does use his
>> local BMI and depending on its capacities performs the action. The actions
>> depend on the praarabda of the BMI which has two components – one coming
>> from the individual remnant vaasanas and the other coming from samashTi.
>> For example, BMI may continue to fulfill the demands of the disciples who
>> need the appropriate teacher for their evolution. He may write bhaashaays
>> and pray the Lord to bless this endeavor.
>>
>>
>>
>> 12. Does the jnaani dream? The question can only be answered from the
>> point of BMI only since from the point of pure sat chit ananda that
>> question is irrelevant. What kind of dream he will have? Dreams are mostly
>> due to the suppressions/oppressions in the waking state. The same criterion
>> is valid for the BMI of the Jnaani also. What kind of suppressions and
>> oppressions jnaanis BMI will have. They depend on the circumstances that
>> particular BMI undergoes – No universal rule can be applied.
>>
>>
>>
>> 13. Does the jnaani while dreaming has the knowledge of his true state? –
>> Now – The discussion seems to shift from one reference to other. From the
>> point of jnaanam, that question is irrelevant since there are no dream
>> states to answer – ekam eva adviteeyam. We can only answer from the BMI
>> reference.
>>
>>
>>
>> The BMI that dreams may or may not remember the waking state knowledge
>> like any other BMIs since the dream world is projected based on what was
>> suppressed or oppressed. He may dream of the disciple’s problems or the
>> BMI’s problems in the past depending on its memory status. The dreamer BMI
>> of a jnaani may not remember the status of his waker BMI just like the
>> state of ajnaani. These problems belong to prakriti only.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does that BMI has still knowledge of the absolute state? – The dream
>> itself arises first when the intellect is suppressed to some extent and
>> when the mind projects. If the discriminative intellect remains sharp, then
>> that BMI may not be in the dream state at all. Nithya – anitya vastu viveka
>> is not fully available for a dreamer BMI while in dream. For every BMI, the
>> falsity of the dream is recognized by the waker BMI and not by dreamer BMI.
>> Dream is not a dream while one is the dream. This is the problem with the
>> BMI and nothing to do with jnaani or ajnaani. ajnaani may claim that I did
>> not know while jnaani may claim that ‘this BMI did not know’.
>>
>>
>>
>> 14. Jnaanam involves only the knowledge of the absolute by the BMI, which
>> was gained by his prepared mind using Viveka. With respect to the
>> transactional world, the knowledge of the BMIs of both jaani or anjnaani
>> will still be limited. Jnaani’s BMI maybe sharp enough to learn quickly on
>> a transactional need base. It is similar to a very good actor able to play
>> any role as demanded by the script on the stage.
>>
>>
>>
>> 15. Therefore, does jnaani dreams and what kind of dreams and does he
>> have the knowledge of absolute truth etc., have no meaning from the point
>> of the jnaani’s reference. However, from the point of BMI’s reference, it
>> belongs to prakriti and all modifications of prakriti depend on the driving
>> forces which are vaasanas – for jnaani’s BMI it is the remnant vaasanaas
>> that is keeping the BMI to continue.
>>
>>
>>
>> 16 In summary, as long as we do not mix up the reference states from
>> which the topic is being discussed, there should not be any confusion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hari Om!
>>
>> Sadananda
>>
>>
>>
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