[Advaita-l] WHAT AM "I"

[Akilesh Ayyar]

Sudhanshuji,

Hari Om. :)

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 9:49 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Akilesh ji,
>
> I hear you and I am in harmony with your view. I too had said the same
> thing though it might have appeared something else to you. Thanks.
>
> Regards.
> Sudhanshu.
>
> On Fri 7 Jun, 2019, 19:14 Akilesh Ayyar, <ayyar at akilesh.com> wrote:
>
>> Sudhanshuji,
>>
>> When you say the word "I," you have immediately created a distinction, a
>> separation, a boundary. All such distinctions are in fact absolutely
>> non-existent.
>>
>> The only utterable, thinkable "I" is the one which is the wrong I. The
>> "right I" is not thinkable -- so unthinkable that even to call it
>> unthinkable is wrong, because it is not an "it" with qualities like
>> unthinkability. Even to call it the "right I" is wrong.
>>
>> Another way of saying the same thing is that all words are ultimately
>> meaningless. This is why the truest verbal definition of Brahman is just
>> neti, neti.
>>
>> All this is why in Ribhu Gita you find passages like the following:
>>
>>
>> *The existence as “this is,” “I am,” or “the world is,” *the faulty
>> notions about one’s own inner faculties,
>> the actions of one’s inner faculties,
>> any kind of misconception such as one’s own life,
>> one’s own death,
>> one’s own birth,
>> “there is an Isvara,” [god]
>> “I am the jiva,” [embodied individual]
>> or “the world is,”
>> the substance of delusion,
>> the substance of greatness,
>> the substance of thought,
>> “full of the world,”
>> whatever is shown by the scriptures,
>> whatever is expressed in the Veda-s,
>> the exhortation “It is One,”
>> talk of duality,
>> any mis­apprehension that “I am Siva,”
>> the misapprehension that “I am Brahma,”
>> the misapprehension that “I am Vishnu,”
>> the misunder­standing that the world exists,
>> the misunderstanding that some little difference exists,
>> the misunderstanding that some little duality exists,
>> the certitude that “all is,”
>> the certitude that “all is not,”
>> the certitude that “all is Brahman,”
>> the universe of one’s own con­templation,
>> the manifest universe of one’s own recollection,
>> the phenomenal universe of the nature of sorrow and
>> the manifold universe of the nature of joy,
>> the phenomenal universe of “duality and nonduality,” and
>> the manifold universe of “reality and unreality,”
>> the phenomenal world of wakefulness, and, likewise,
>> the manifold world of dreams,
>> the phenomenon of the knowledge of the deep sleep state or the phenomenon
>> of the knowledge of the “fourth state,”
>> the phenomenal world of Vedic knowledge,
>> the manifold world of scriptural knowledge,
>> the phenomenal world of sinful thoughts or the manifold world of
>> differing merits,
>> the phenomenal world of the nature of knowledge,
>> the manifold world of the knowledge of the attributeless,
>> the phenomenal world of qualities or absence thereof,
>> the determination of defects and nondefects,
>> the investigation into reality and unreality,
>> the investi­gation into the mobile and the immobile,
>> the “true conviction that the Self is one,”
>> the concept that the Self is important,
>> the certitude that the phenomenal world is nonexistent and that all is
>> Brahman,
>> statements that the “differences aris­ing out of duality and nonduality
>> exist not, exist not,”
>> the certitude that the world is, indeed, unreal and all is Brahman,
>> the ideas of cause and effect, and the unsettling due to multiple
>> differences—
>>
>>
>> *renouncing and throwing away thus and all that give various mantra-s, be
>> steadfastly established in yourself forever.*
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 9:25 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Akhilesh ji,
>>>
>>> Can you please elaborate upon // In a very important sense, the I is
>>> precisely what is absolutely non-existent, as non-existent as the horn of a
>>> hare//.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>> Sudhanshu.
>>>
>>> On Fri 7 Jun, 2019, 18:43 Akilesh Ayyar, <ayyar at akilesh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste,
>>>>
>>>> But my point is that technically, Brahman is beyond I and not-I, is
>>>> beyond is and is not, and is beyond something and nothing. In a very
>>>> important sense, the I is precisely what is absolutely non-existent, as
>>>> non-existent as the horn of a hare. In the end, nothing can be said that is
>>>> true, and so one must fall silent. It is that living silence which is the
>>>> real teaching of Vedanta.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 3:05 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>>>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hari Om,
>>>>>
>>>>> "I am something" just means that it is not that I am nothing. I am not
>>>>> horn of hare.. this is what is meant by "I am something".
>>>>>
>>>>> What I said abot I is what silence is. It is nothing which can be
>>>>> conceived of. And yet it is. That silence is not horn of hare. And that
>>>>> silence cannot be conceived of.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sudhanshu.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri 7 Jun, 2019, 12:29 Akilesh Ayyar via Advaita-l, <
>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Namaste,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Thus, a complete description of I is as follows: I am something. And
>>>>>> I am
>>>>>> not that which I can even think about."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not quite. To say "I am something" is also a thought with all the
>>>>>> accompanying limitations. Thus the only complete description is
>>>>>> silence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 2:28 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
>>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Hari Om,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I am something. I am not nothing. And I am not that which I can
>>>>>> see, hear,
>>>>>> > smell, touch, taste, feel, decide, or identify with. I am not that
>>>>>> which I
>>>>>> > can think or visualize.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This is a complete description of myself.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Any word of Shruti which appears to describe "I" positively is
>>>>>> nothing but
>>>>>> > negation alone. "I" cannot be described positively. So words like
>>>>>> Satyam,
>>>>>> > Jnanam, Anantam etc are not positive but negative description
>>>>>> alone. For
>>>>>> > eg, I am jnanam. So let us not think that Shruti indicates me as
>>>>>> some sort
>>>>>> > of "light of awareness" or "consciousness" etc. But She is merely
>>>>>> saying
>>>>>> > that I am not jada.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Thus, a complete description of I is as follows: I am something.
>>>>>> And I am
>>>>>> > not that which I can even think about.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Regards,
>>>>>> > Sudhanshu.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Fri 7 Jun, 2019, 09:55 Belavadi Shankar via Advaita-l, <
>>>>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Please read Ashtawakra Samhita.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 7:53 AM sreenivasa murthy via Advaita-l <
>>>>>> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > > Dear friends,WHAT AM " I "? This  is  the  question
>>>>>> > > > which will be in the mind of
>>>>>> > > > a sincere student  of  Vedanta.The  answer  for  the  above
>>>>>> vital
>>>>>> > > > question  is :
>>>>>> > > > The  uncreated , unborn,  light of  awareness  is what  I  am.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > That is  the basis  substratum,  andcontainer  of  all
>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > Theworld, senses, body,  mind,  waking, dreaming,  sleeping,
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > knowledge,  lack of  knowledge,  consciousness,
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > unconsciousness– whatever  can  be framed  as  some
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > kind  of experience—these  are  allappearances  in  this
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > changeless  reality of  my  being.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > I  am prior  to  those things  and  yet  Icontain  them  all.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > No  experience is  separate  and apart  from  what I  am.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > UNQUOTE.
>>>>>> > > > Is it  not  the message  of  the  Upanishads?
>>>>>> > > > Allof  us should  cognize  this within  ourselves  by
>>>>>>  ourselves
>>>>>> > > > so that we can be krutArthas.
>>>>>> > > >  Withrespectful namaskars,SreenivasaMurthy.
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>