[Advaita-l] No Parinama in Brahman says Shankara Bhagavatpada

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Hari Om Acharya Sada ji,

Whether it is "gold appearing as ornament" or "bangle converting into gold"
-- there is activity. And that is against nishkriyatva.

I understand that the standard answer would be -- from the point of view of
gold, there is no activity. But from the point of view of gold, there is no
ornament itself.

The problem is -- gold CANNOT appear as ornament unless there is space
which is different from gold. Brahman CANNOT appear as world unless there
is something different from Brahman. A singular object cannot appear as
anything else. And that is not possible in advaita.

Regards.
Sudhanshu.



On Tue 25 Jun, 2019, 17:26 kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> PraNAms
> We had some discussion related to this when an issue was raised in
> relation to some slokas in Panchadasi when we were doing those slokas -
> about a year ago.
> Transformation gold into ornaments is vivarta while the transformation of
> a ring into a bangle is parinaama.
> vaachaarambhanam vikaaro naamadheyam - relates to vivarta than parinaama.
> Hari Om!Sadananda
>
>     On Tuesday, June 25, 2019, 03:44:12 AM EDT, H S Chandramouli via
> Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>  Namaste,
>
> Very  happy to see the correction issued , suo moto, in respect  of one
> part. Hope and wish the same will follow, sooner than later,  in respect of
> the following part as well.
>
> << Shankara has elsewhere denied any parinama even in
> the case of clay, etc. The Chandogya and Manukya karika bhashya-s are the
> references >>.
>
> Regards
>
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> >
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:02 PM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Brahma Sutra Bhashya 2.1.14
> >
> >  ननु मृदादिदृष्टान्तप्रणयनात् परिणामवद्ब्रह्म शास्त्रस्याभिमतमिति गम्यते
> ;
> > परिणामिनो हि मृदादयोऽर्था लोके समधिगता इति ।
> >
> > Question: From the analogies of clay, gold and iron, it appears that
> > Brahman is subject to transformation since it is admitted in the world
> that
> > clay, etc. undergo transformation to yield their effects of pot,
> ornament,
> > etc.
> >
> > Reply:  It is not so. The shruti passages such as This Atman is unborn,
> > beyond death, old age, etc. not gross, not subtle, etc. preclude the
> above
> > conclusion. These passages teach that Atman is immutable, kUTastha. Can
> we
> > say that one Brahman alone is endowed with the attribute of
> transformation
> > and also the absence of it? Not so since we have stated Brahman to be
> > kUTastha, immutable. Such a Brahman cannot have conflicting attributes
> such
> > as movement and fixed in one place. Brahman is kutastha and nitya because
> > it is devoid of all transformations. It is also not the case that just as
> > the realization that Brahman is verily the Atman leads to moksha, the
> > transformation of Brahman, independently, is aimed at giving some fruit
> (to
> > the aspirant), as there is no pramana for such a contention. The shruti
> > teaches that the moksha phala is attained only by realizing the kuTastha
> > brahman (and not by knowing Brahman to be subject to transformation). It
> is
> > the firm conclusion that while there is the fruit (of liberation) only by
> > knowing Brahman as kUTastha, there is no fruit stated in the shaastra for
> > knowing Brahman as endowed with transformation as the world, the latter
> is
> > only a means to realize Brahman as kUTastha resulting in moksha. There is
> > absolutely no fruit in knowing Brahman as the one transforming into the
> > world.
> >
> > नेत्युच्यते — ‘ स वा एष महानज आत्माजरोऽमरोऽमृतोऽभयो ब्रह्म’ (बृ. उ. ४ ।
> ४ ।
> > २५)
> > <
> >
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=4&id=BR_C04_S04_V25&hl=%20%E0%A4%B8%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%8F%E0%A4%B7%20%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%9C%20%E0%A4%86%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%BD%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%BD%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%83%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%BD%E0%A4%AD%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%8B%20%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE
> > >
> >  ‘ स एष नेति नेत्यात्मा’ (बृ. उ. ३ । ९ । २६)
> > <
> >
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=3&id=BR_C03_S09_V26&hl=%20%E0%A4%B8%20%E0%A4%8F%E0%A4%B7%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE
> > >
> >  ‘ अस्थूलमनणु’ (बृ. उ. ३ । ८ । ८)
> > <
> >
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=3&id=BR_C03_S08_V08&hl=%20%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A5%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%A3%E0%A5%81
> > >
> >  इत्याद्याभ्यः सर्वविक्रियाप्रतिषेधश्रुतिभ्यः ब्रह्मणः कूटस्थत्वावगमात्
> ; न
> > ह्येकस्य ब्रह्मणः परिणामधर्मत्वं तद्रहितत्वं च शक्यं प्रतिपत्तुम् ।
> स्थिति
> > गतिवत्स्यादिति चेत् , न ; कूटस्थस्येति विशेषणात् ; न हि कूटस्थस्य
> ब्रह्मणः
> > स्थितिगति-वदनेकधर्माश्रयत्वं सम्भवति ; कूटस्थं च नित्यं ब्रह्म
> > सर्वविक्रियाप्रतिषेधादित्यवोचाम । न च यथा ब्रह्मण आत्मैकत्वदर्शनं
> > मो-क्षसाधनम् , एवं जगदाकारपरिणामित्वदर्शनमपि स्वतन्त्रमेव
> > कस्मैचित्फलायाभिप्रेयते, प्रमाणाभावात् ; कूटस्थब्रह्मात्मैकत्वविज्ञानादेव
> > हि
> >  फलं दर्शयति शास्त्रम् — ‘ स एष नेति नेत्यात्मा’ इत्युपक्रम्य ‘ अभयं वै
> जनक
> > प्राप्तोऽसि’ (बृ. उ. ४ । २ । ४)
> > <
> >
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Brha?page=4&id=BR_C04_S02_V04&hl=%20%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%AD%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%88%20%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%95%20%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%BD%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%BF
> > >
> > इत्येवंजातीयकम् । तत्रैतत्सि-द्धं भवति — ब्रह्मप्रकरणे
> > सर्वधर्मविशेषरहितब्रह्मदर्शनादेव फलसिद्धौ सत्याम् , यत्तत्राफलं श्रूयते
> > ब्रह्मणो जगदाकारपरिणामित्वादि, तद्ब्रह्मदर्शनोपायत्-वेनैव विनियुज्यते,
> > फलवत्सन्निधावफलं तदङ्गमितिवत् ; न तु स्वतन्त्रं फलाय कल्प्यत इति ।
> >
> > In the above discourse we see that Shankara, even though has stated that
> > Brahman 'became/transformed' into the jagat in an earlier sutra bhashya
> > (आत्मकृतेः परिणामात्), his asserting here that there is no parinama,
> > becoming the jagat, for Brahman, the earlier mention of parinama is not
> in
> > the sense of any real transformation but only a case of Brahman appearing
> > as the jagat, vivarta.  Shankara has elsewhere denied any parinama even
> in
> > the case of clay, etc. The Chandogya and Manukya karika bhashya-s are the
> > references.
> >
> > Om Tat Sat
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