[Advaita-l] Question about Sri Vidyaranya's JMV & jnani matra

[V Subrahmanian]

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 4:47 PM Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:

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> We can end up saying: Even what is 'said' to be stated by Ramana is only
> ajnanis' imagination; in fact there is no person at all called Ramana, that
> is also ajnani's imagination. And the robbers raiding the Ashram, Ramana
> getting a blow or two from them, and what he said about it later, all are
> only imaginations of ajnani-s. They never happened at all.
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> regards
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> subbu
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> praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji
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> Hare Krishna
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> Yes, if you ask me, coz. ramaNa himself saying this :
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> //quote//
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> For the jnani, there is neither scriptures nor prarabdha. Questions like
> this have no relevance for the jnani. All these rules in the scriptures
> were created only for the ajnanis [those who are not enlightened].
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> //unquote//
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> So, it is a difficult pill to swallow, for those who literally  teaching
> about jnAni’s body, his movement, his rAga-dvesha, his prArabdha, his
> avidyA lesha ( a big and dangerous tumor ) even after paripUrNa jnana and
> insisting that these are al NOT  in the eyes of ajnAni-s who can never ever
> be able to look beyond the BMI of the jnAni.  Even  your recent quote about
> ramaNa’s acceptance of existence of jnAni’s BMI is just to pacify the
> onlooker who is expecting the change in the ‘body’ of the jnAni after
> realization.  Yes, in a way all the above what you quoted mere imagination
> of the conditioned mind and the sampradaya says in another prakaraNa about
>  imaginary wet dreams and its real results or dream’s unreal tiger’s
> roaring and waker’s real increased heart beats 😊  Anyway, IMO, most of
> the times, it seems ramaNa emphasizes the fact that jnAni's body is ONLY in
> the view of onlookers...In all the quotes ramaNa never ever insisted the
> individual set of indriya-s & reflected chaitanya etc. For that matter in
> one of his talkings,  ramaNa explained how it is only onlookers view  with
> regard to jnAni 'avoiding the table on the path of walking'...working of
> jnAni without mind like clock..etc..This clearly shows he is insisting that
> jnAni is devoid of any limited adjuncts.  Here is another quote from raMaNa
> ( quoted by Sri Mouna prabhuji in advaitin list) :
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>
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> //quote//
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> a visitor asked Bhagavan, “The
> realised man has no further karma. He is not bound by his karma.
> Why should he still remain with his body?” Bhagavan replied,
> “Who asks this question? Is it the realised man or the *ajnani*?
> Why should you bother what the *jnani *does or why he does
> anything? You look after yourself.” A little later he added, “You
> are under the impression you are the body. So you think the
> *jnani *also has a body. Does the *jnani *say he has a body?
>

Yes, the Jnani Shankara and Bhagavan Krishna have emphatically said that
the Jnani has a body. In BSB 4.1.15 Shankara has asked: How can anyone deny
a Jnani's conviction of being Brahman and also being in a body? This alone
is taught as sthita prajna lakshana in shruti and smriti.

In the Gita Krishna has taught: nava dvaare purey dehi naiva kurvan na
kaarayan.

Thus, the Jnani does say he has a body. The Jnani can say he has no body
while being in the body.  Only when the disciple asks and if the jnani
shows no signs of hearing it, can the disciple conclude that Jnana is a
disease and the Jnani is afflicted by that disease.

So, it is best to study the Shankara bhashya correctly without getting
confused with Ramana's stray teachings. In the Bhashya we have no room for
inconsistency.  If we speak of a Jnani then there has to be
'sthitaprajnasya kaa bhaashaa,  etc. that Arjuna asks.' Shankara does not
say 'Arjuna is imagining these things.' Nor does the Lord say in the 4th
chapter: do not approach Jnanis for learning about Atma tattva because
there is no Jnani'. On the other hand Krishna says 'approach Jnanis who are
tattva darshis and they will impart the knowledge to you.'

regards
subbu


> He
> may look to you as having a body and doing things with the
> body, as others do. The burnt rope still looks like a rope, but it
> can’t serve as a rope if you try to bind anything with it. So long
> as one identifies oneself with the body, all this is difficult to
> understand. That is why it is sometimes said in reply to such
> questions, ‘The body of the *jnani *will continue till the force of
> *prarabdha *works itself out, and after the *prarabdha *is exhausted
> it will drop off. An illustration made use of in this connection is
> that of an arrow already discharged which will continue to
> advance and strike its target. But the truth is the *jnani *has
> transcended all karmas, including the *prarabdha *karma, and
> he is not bound by the body or its karmas.”
>
>
>
> //unquote//
>
> I am not saying anything new here nor you are hearing afresh.  So my last
> mail on this thread.
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> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>
> bhaskar
>