[Advaita-l] Question about Sri Vidyaranya's JMV & jnani matra

[V Subrahmanian]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 1:38 AM Akilesh Ayyar <ayyar at akilesh.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 7:33 PM Akilesh Ayyar via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > >> He says: "In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the
>> > >> three states are destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice
>> > the Jnani
>> > >> active e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of
>> > these
>> > >> activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain
>> to
>> > >> his >> body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is
>> like
>> > the
>> > >> sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleep and
>> > fed,
>> > >> being unaware of it."
>> >
>>
>> The above is not very intelligible to me. As it does not accord to reason.
>> What comes out from the above is: The Jnani (his body) does not die in
>> 'sahaja samadhi.' What is called 'destruction' of the three states,
>> activities, etc. is not physically going out of existence. If they are
>> destroyed literally, how can others notice the Jnani active, eating
>> talking
>> etc.? Are the onlookers imagining/perceiving only the activities, talking,
>> movements etc. of the Jnani or are they also imagining/perceiving the body
>> of the Jnani? How can he be said to be unaware of these activities, when
>> they happen? Supposing he is in a conversation. The other person asks him
>> something and he gives a considered reply which satisfies the other
>> person.
>> How can this happen without the Jnani being aware of the conversation?
>> Should he not be hearing the question, think of the apt reply and
>> verbalize
>> it so that the other person at least hears it? For this, should not the
>> Jnani at least modulate his voice to be able to make himself sufficiently
>> audible to the other? How is this possible without his being aware of
>> these
>> elements of a conversation?  We have seen videos of Bhagavan where he
>> walks, does not dash against any obstacle, receives medicine, a glass of
>> water, drinks it, sits, etc. How can these happen without his being aware
>> of these?
>>
>
> Subrahmanianji,
>
> In fact, the idea of onlookers is also only from the standpoint of
> onlookers.
>

I can appreciate that from the standpoint of na nirodho na chotpattih....no
seeker, there is none who is realized, etc. But to say 'Jnani never
perceives anything but others perceive his activities, etc.' is not in tune
with the idea of paramaarthathaa.  This statement accepts someone as a
Jnani, not yet dead, but denies others' perception of his activities as
their own imagination. The statement is hanging somewhere between two
standpoints. This is what I questioned. Your answers do not address this.

The VC verse does not cause any confusion that the purported Ramaana
statement throws up.

regards
subbu

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