[Advaita-l] Jnana and Ajnana - a beautiful dialogue

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Chandramouli ji
Thanks for pointing out that I had not sent it to the forum.
Regarding AtmA which is alupta-dRk, you indicated that it is not the sAxI
for the GYAna vRtti (for even the vRtti vyApti aspect)? Because of absence
of phala vyApti? Can you clarify and elaborate why "AtmA is sAxI for all
manovRttis except the GYAna vRtti" - my reading of what you are trying to
say - kindly correct me if I understand you incorrectly ?


On Sun, 10 Nov, 2019, 7:20 PM H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Raghav Ji,
>
>
>
> Reg  << I meant Atma as GYAna svarUpam is the sAxI for both aGYAnam as
> well as all other vRttis including even the GYAna vRtti for that matter
> (which does not need phala vyApti as pointed out by Sada-ji)  >>,
>
>
>
> Just to put matters in the right perspective and not to appear to be
> unnecessarily fussy. Atma as GYAna svarUpam  is NOT considered a sAxi  in
> respect of  GYAna vRtti.
>
>
>
> Reg  << I am not sure how other teachers who regard aGYAnam is abhAvam
> reason out this idea of aGYAnena AvRtam GYAnam >>,
>
>
>
> just quickly checked  BG by Sri SSS who considers  aGYAnam as abhAvam. Did
> not find the answer to your question. Will get back if I find the answer
> from other sources.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, your response was not addressed to the Forum. Just for info.
>
>
> Regards
>
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 2:32 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Chandramouli ji
>> I meant Atma as GYAna svarUpam is the sAxI for both aGYAnam as well as
>> all other vRttis including even the GYAna vRtti for that matter (which does
>> not need phala vyApti as pointed out by Sada-ji).
>>
>> The phrase "being unopposed to" is relevant only to the peculiar fact the
>> GYAnam (AtmA) is unopposed to aGYAnam.
>>
>> On a different note-
>> I am not sure how other teachers who regard aGYAnam is abhAvam reason out
>> this idea of aGYAnena AvRtam GYAnam. One scholar once mentioned that if
>> *only* bhAShya is studied and no relevant prakaraNa granthas like vedAnta
>> paribhAShA etc are studied , then pramANa shAstra basics will not be
>> clearly understood and so statements like "the sAxI *intuits*  the GYAnam
>> are made."
>>
>> Om
>> Raghav
>>
>> On Sun, 10 Nov, 2019, 1:38 PM H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Raghav Ji,
>>>
>>> Perhaps u mean manOvritti when u r terming GYAna vRtti ?? If yes, it is
>>> better to term it so.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 1:03 PM H S Chandramouli <
>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps  << former being the very svarUpam of Atma merely illuminates
>>>> both aGYAnam and
>>>> GYAnam and is not opposed to it per se, the following question arises.
>>>> >>  sould read as
>>>>
>>>> << former being the very svarUpam of Atma merely illuminates both
>>>> aGYAnam and
>>>> GYAna vRtti, and is not opposed to it per se, the following question
>>>> arises.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 11:43 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for tye typo - it should read
>>>>> Regarding the content about the distinction between GYAnam and GYAna
>>>>> vRtti
>>>>> , with the latter alone being effectual in destroying aGYAnam while the
>>>>> former being the very svarUpam of Atma merely illuminates both aGYAnam
>>>>> and
>>>>> GYAnam and is not opposed to it per se, the following question arises.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 10 Nov, 2019, 6:44 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula, <
>>>>> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Namaste Subbuji
>>>>> > Thanks for sharing that. Is it a dialogue with the Paramacharya of
>>>>> Kanchi
>>>>> > H.H. Sri Chandrashekarendra Saraswati Swamiji? An excerpt from a
>>>>> book?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Regarding the content about the distinction between GYAnam and GYAna
>>>>> vRtti
>>>>> > , with the latter alone being effectual in destroying aGYAnam while
>>>>> the
>>>>> > former being the very svarUpam if Atma merely illuminates both
>>>>> aGYAnam and
>>>>> > is not opposed to it per se, the following question arises.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > There is view which was expressed earlier by a respected scholar on
>>>>> this
>>>>> > forum that the GYAna vRttis are sought to be continually cultivated
>>>>> even
>>>>> > for the 'higher order' of GYAnIs because there is a possibility of
>>>>> cyuti or
>>>>> > slippage even for them. So there is no respite. A kind of eternal
>>>>> vigilance
>>>>> > has to be maintained as the price of liberty. This is one viewpoint.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Is there any 'order' of GYAni for whom we can very literally assert
>>>>> that
>>>>> > sarvathA vartamAnopi he never slips or is vulnerable to a cyuti
>>>>> because he
>>>>> > has attained (understood) non-difference with GYAnam as Atma
>>>>> svarUpam? My
>>>>> > understanding is yes. But wanted to clarify this further.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thank you
>>>>> > Om
>>>>> > Raghav
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sat, 9 Nov, 2019, 7:28 AM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
>>>>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> PeriyavAL: Know that there are Guttu Shlokas in Bharatam
>>>>> (Mahabharata)?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Myself: These are Guttu Shlokas because they were composed to
>>>>> reduce the
>>>>> >> speed of PiLLaiyar's (Ganesha's) writing.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> PeriyavAL: There is a Guttu Shloka in Gita! You know?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Myself: Don't know.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> PeriyavAL: '*aj~nAnenanAvR^itaM j~nAnaM tena muhyanti jantavaH |
>>>>> j~nAnena
>>>>> >> tu tadaj~nAnaM yeSAM nAshitamAtmanaH ||*' (5.15,16)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> "Atma who is *jnAnarUpam* (in the form of knowledge) is veiled with
>>>>> >> *ajnAnaM* (ignorance). People are deluded because of that. If the
>>>>> >> *ajnAnaM* is
>>>>> >> destroyed by *jnAnaM*, Moksha will be attained."
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Isn't this doctrine puzzling, confusing? How can *ajnAnaM* veil
>>>>> *jnAnaM*?
>>>>> >> If it is veiled, how by that same *jnAnaM* will *ajnAnaM* be
>>>>> destroyed? --
>>>>> >> is the confusion. Vinayaka blinks. In those few seconds Vyasa has
>>>>> readily
>>>>> >> composed the *shloka*s of many chapters.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> For this puzzle that comes in the fifth chapter, he gives the
>>>>> answer in
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> tenth chapter!
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> teshAmanukampArtham ahamaj~nAnajaM tamaH |
>>>>> >> nAshayAmi AtmabhAvastaH j~nAnadIpena bhasvatA ||
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> To show mercy on the *bhaktA*s who always sing and think only about
>>>>> me and
>>>>> >> melt by those acts in their hearts, I as the *jnAna rUpi* (form of
>>>>> >> knowledge) enter the state of mind that remains *akhaNdAkAram* (not
>>>>> >> fragmentary, entire, whole) and is known as *AtmabhAvam* (state of
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> soul), reach the *prati-bimbam* (reflection), strengthen the
>>>>> *jnAnam* and
>>>>> >> set aside (the veil) of ignorance.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> (In other words, *svarUpa jnAnam* by itself will not set aside
>>>>> ignorance.
>>>>> >> It only notifies its presence. But if the same *svarUpa jnAnam* is
>>>>> >> reflected by the *mano vRutti* (mode/nature/state of mind) that
>>>>> results
>>>>> >> from continued experience of the state of meditation on the Vedanta
>>>>> Maha
>>>>> >> Vakhyas after studying and reflecting on them, that will
>>>>> immediately burn
>>>>> >> the ignorance. Even if the sun has the *svabhAva* (inherent nature)
>>>>> to
>>>>> >> burn
>>>>> >> cotton, it burns the cotton only when the rays touch it through a
>>>>> special
>>>>> >> lens!
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Read more:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> http://periva.proboards.com/thread/2491/kanchi-paramacharya-satsangam-shashtrartha-02#ixzz64gsvLt00
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>>>>> >> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>>>>> >> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> For assistance, contact:
>>>>> >> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>>>>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>>>>> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>>>>
>>>>> For assistance, contact:
>>>>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>>>>
>>>>