[Advaita-l] On Ramana

[Ven Balakrishnan]

Thank you Raghav-ji.   Ramesam-ji also sent me a note highlighting this BG13.2, which I overlooked.

As I think you are suggesting, this comment by Sankara, should be read in the context of a long discussion of the field and the knower of the field; and that someone whose teaching / comments do not understand the distinction, as taught by traditional scriptures, is a fool.  That seems to be to be a subtly different point than the way it has been used.

And, as others have said, Ramanamaharishi’s teaching does not seem at all confused with respect to this distinction.

Best wishes,
venkat


> On 25 Jun 2021, at 05:40, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> 
> Namaste Venkat ji
> He is referring to "असम्प्रदायवित् मूर्खवत् उपेक्षणीयः।" - (someone who is
> not sampradAya-vit  i.e., a knower of the Advaita teaching tradition -
> should be ignored as a fool) - a well known phrase from shankara bhAShya.
> 
> This is taken to mean a critique particularly of those who study the Vedas
> and yet do not understand or teach Advaita.
> 
> It refers to those who despite studying the Vedas etc.,  teach that "I am a
> samsaari , a sukhI and a dukhI. Ishvara the kShetraGYA, is different from
> the body. He is the kShetraGYa and the kShetra or body is (always) his
> viShaya. I shall *do* sAxAtkAra of Ishvara by meditation and *become*
> established as Ishvara and become one with his svarUpa. Those who believe
> in such a process and teach others such an idea are ignorant of the Advaita
> sAmpradAya and are to be ignored like a fool even if they gave studied all
> the shAstras." (Rough translation).
> 
> इदं च अन्यत् पाण्डित्यं केषाञ्चित् अस्तु — क्षेत्रज्ञः ईश्वर एव । क्षेत्रं
> च अन्यत् क्षेत्रज्ञस्यैव विषयः । अहं तु संसारी सुखी दुःखी च । संसारोपरमश्च
> मम कर्तव्यः क्षेत्रक्षेत्रज्ञविज्ञानेन, ध्यानेन च ईश्वरं क्षेत्रज्ञं
> साक्षात्कृत्वा तत्स्वरूपावस्थानेनेति । यश्च एवं बुध्यते, यश्च बोधयति, नासौ
> क्षेत्रज्ञः इति । एवं मन्वानः यः सः पण्डितापशदः, संसारमोक्षयोः शास्त्रस्य च
> अर्थवत्त्वं करोमीति ; आत्महा स्वयं मूढः अन्यांश्च व्यामोहयति
> शास्त्रार्थसम्प्रदायरहितत्वात् , श्रुतहानिम् अश्रुतकल्पनां च कुर्वन् ।
> तस्मात् असम्प्रदायवित् सर्वशास्त्रविदपि मूर्खवदेव उपेक्षणीयः ॥ Gita 13.2
> bhAShya.
> 
> 
> As can be seen, the context is that some teachers talking of *doing*
> something like meditation etc., which leads to an event called *becoming*
> one with Ishvara. The current status of being a samsaari is regarded as an
> absolutely real status which needs to be ended by our efforts. The kShetra
> and kShetraGYA are different but equally real. Such is their dualistic view
> like in sAMkhya's purUSha and prakriti which are both real and by whose
> discrimination, one becomes established in one's true nature by the power
> of meditation. (The GYAna and karma difference and the lacking of
> understanding of vyAvahArika and pAramArthika orders of reality renders
> such vedic views outside the Advaita tradition although they accept the
> Vedas).
> 
> The above powerful saying has in recent times been extended to other
> teachers who do needless nitpicking. But that's another story.
> 
> Om
> 
> Raghav
> 
> 
> On Fri, 25 Jun, 2021, 12:46 am Ven Balakrishnan via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Bhaskar-ji,
>> 
>> Do you have a reference for the point that you make below?  I don’t
>> recollect coming across that sort of comment.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> venkat
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 24 Jun 2021, at 18:18, Bhaskar YR via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> If the teaching is not traditional then that teaching and the teacher
>> should be ignored is the instruction of bhagavatpAda.
>> 
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