[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,

I have not come across the concept of दण्डायमान श्रोत्र वृत्ति. There is
only manOvritti. This gains knowledge  thru the indriyas.

Reg  << It cannot be argued that every moment new vritti is created >>,

Indeed yes. It is so. The manOvritti is understood as a continuous stream
of  momentary vrittis in one view while in another, a vritti is admitted to
persist for the same cognition till rise of another vritti for a different
cognition. It would not be appropriate to consider that mind and shrotra
are already there at vishaya desha at the beginning of cognition and hence
no time delay need be considered for subsequent sounds.  I am not sure if
same frequency can be considered as an unchanging cognition of sound.

Regards

Chandramouli

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On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:07 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> My understanding is as follows. Kindly correct Chandramouli ji.
>
> There is a दण्डायमान श्रोत्र वृत्ति which spans from our body till vishay
> desha. Riding on that the antahkaran forms antahkaran vritti from our body
> till vishay desha. There owing to samyoga of shrotra and vishaya, mind
> forms vsihayAkAra vritti.
>
> Now once this दण्डायमान श्रोत्र वृत्ति is formed and mind and shrotra are
> already there at vishaya desha, how will again it need to go there. If due
> to change in frequency, it is argued that new vishaya has come about
> needing new vritti, then let us keep the frequency same and switch off the
> source after 5 minutes.
>
> Considering that vishaya is same, vritti remains same. Mind+shrota of both
> a and b are in vishaya desha. Yet, at 10.05.01, a has no auditory
> perception but b will continue to have perception till 10.05.10.
>
> It cannot be argued that every moment new vritti is created.
>
> Regards
>
> On Sun, 9 May 2021, 19:36 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,
>>
>> Reg  << So, Mind+shrotra going out will not be able to explain the
>> differing perception in case of subsequent perception when m+s is
>> supposedly already there at vishaya  >>,
>>
>> It is not that m+s is already at the location of the sound source. And
>> all subsequent perceptions of sound will be coterminous with sound
>> production. For each sound perception, m+s  needs to travel the distance
>> separately for that sound perception. That is what is intended. A
>> continuous flow of m+s to the sound source. There seems to be no particular
>> objection to considering that m+s has a different speed compared to m+c.
>>
>> Having said that, Prof Suryanarayana Rao also lists several objections to
>> the concept. See Note 28 in his translation of Vedanta Paribhasha.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Chandramouli
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 6:53 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hari Om Chandramouli ji,
>>>
>>> It will still be unable to explain subsequent perceptions. Let me
>>> explain:-
>>>
>>> Suppose a sound source of adequate intensity produces sound 3.4 km away.
>>> It can be experimentally demonstrated that it will take 10 sec to be
>>> perceived. Now let there be two observers a and b. A is near the source
>>> while b is 3.4 km away. (In an obstruction free space a large clock can
>>> also be placed). Sound produced is of different frequencies. Both a and b
>>> are noting down the frequencies and time. Suppose sound of frequency x is
>>> produced at 10 am. So a will write x--10 am while b will write x--10.00.10.
>>> Now at 10.05 suppose sound of frequency y is produced. Then a will write
>>> y--10.05. But b will write y--10.05.10. But by this time, mind is already
>>> there with shrotra. (3.4 km is a very short distance. Many a times it will
>>> be within range of visibility also). So subsequent perceptions should match
>>> for observers a and b. But this does not happen. So, Mind+shrotra going out
>>> will not be able to explain the differing perception in case of subsequent
>>> perception when m+s is supposedly already there at vishaya.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 9 May, 2021, 6:20 pm H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,
>>>>
>>>> Reg  << If the mind does not reach there simultaneously, then the
>>>> conclusion would
>>>> be attribution of different speeds to mind+chakshu vis-a-vis
>>>> mind+shrotra  >>,
>>>>
>>>> What would be the objection to such a conceptualization?
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Chandramouli
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 1:02 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hari Om,
>>>>>
>>>>> In case of visual and audible perception, mind is said to go out along
>>>>> with
>>>>> chakshu and shrota indriya and make contact with vishaya and turn
>>>>> vishayAkAra. Reflection of chaitanya then gives rise to visual and
>>>>> audible
>>>>> perception.
>>>>>
>>>>> In case of lightning, if the mind reaches there simultaneously with
>>>>> shrotra
>>>>> and chakshu, the perception of light and sound should be simultaneous.
>>>>> But
>>>>> this is not the case.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the mind does not reach there simultaneously, then the conclusion
>>>>> would
>>>>> be attribution of different speeds to mind+chakshu vis-a-vis
>>>>> mind+shrotra.
>>>>>
>>>>> How to understand it in the traditional framework.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Sudhanshu Shekhar.
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