[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Venkatraghavan ji

The actual experience of smell is felt right where the indriya golaka is
viz.,., the nose. We don't experience the fragrance as coming from the
actual source. (Even in a case where lets say fragrance is unidirectionally
spreading from a point, I cannot know the source direction.)

In contrast, in the case of shabda and rupa experiences, they are not
experienced at the point where the light is actually sensed viz., inside
the eye. It is only an anuvAda of this empirical fact experienced by us of
light and sound felt as originating somewhere outside of us, that siddhanta
has to account for by talking of extension of mind to some putative
external point - and this creates problems like the mind going to envelop
non-existent objects etc.

 We need to give some reason why, if in rUpa case too, as is being
suggested, light contacts the physical golaka to mediate arising of
manovRtti just like in the case of gandha, why does mind's
projection/extension process happen only in  for rUpa and shabda?

This may not be a big logical hurdle, but for completeness, some
explanation is required. (Esp. since the siddhanta VP explanation to
account for this very distant experience of sound/light if taken literally
, runs foul in the case of observations of stars etc.)

Om

Raghav

On Tue, 11 May, 2021, 8:03 pm Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Sudhanshu ji,
>
> Yes. That is exactly what is being suggested to overcome the problem you
> identified.
>
> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 2:16 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Venkataraghavan ji,
> >
> > Then vishaya-desha in all perception is indriya-golak. This is
> > specifically denied for chakshu and shrotra in siddhAnta. Effectively,
> you
> > are turning all vishaya to be located at indriya-golaka by making vishaya
> > itself as light/sound located at the indriyagolak.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 11 May, 2021, 6:40 pm Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l, <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Namaste Subbuji,
> >> I had suggested a response to the question "is what is seen the object,
> or
> >> the conceptualisation of an object?" in an email to Raghav ji.
> >>
> >> With respect to what is pramA / bhrama, the prakriyA is exactly the same
> >> as
> >> the present. As the viShaya here is the reflected light, so long as the
> >> light reflected from the object hits the eye + antahkaraNa, and the
> >> antahkaraNa vRtti removes the ajnAna in prabhAvacChinna chaitanya, the
> >> prabhAvacChinna chaitanya becomes one with the vRttyavacChinna
> chaitanya,
> >> leading to the cognition "I see the object".
> >>
> >> It is bhrama / ayatArtha if the light hits the eye, but due to some
> doSha,
> >> the ajnAna in the prabhAvacChinna chaitanya is not removed, leading to
> >> jnAnA-/arthAdhyAsa.
> >>
> >> With respect to the X-ray example from Jagadguru Srimad Chandrasekhara
> >> Bharati mahAsvAminah, the light that hits the X-ray plate is an X-ray
> (as
> >> it is not within the visible spectrum, it is not pratyaksha yogya). What
> >> is
> >> captured by the plate on the other side are the X-rays that have not
> been
> >> absorbed by the foetus. That being so, the eyes have not made contact
> with
> >> the foetus. Rather the eyes make contact with the X ray plate that has
> >> recorded the X-rays that have not been absorbed by the foetus. Hence,
> here
> >> it is not the object itself that is seen, rather what is seen is a
> plate.
> >>
> >> In our example, it is the light from the pot itself that is seen, not
> the
> >> light from the photograph of a pot.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Venkatraghavan
> >>
> >> On Tue, 11 May 2021, 12:34 V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 4:25 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Namaste
> >> >> It is not to account for exceptions per se. The idea is to preserve
> as
> >> >> much
> >> >> of the advaita epistemological framework as possible, while
> accounting
> >> for
> >> >> observable scientific phenomena.
> >> >>
> >> >> That being the case, what was suggested is that if we change the
> >> concept
> >> >> of
> >> >> what constitutes a viShaya to the subject (the object is not the
> >> viShaya,
> >> >> light / sound is), one can preserve the existing framework while
> >> >> addressing
> >> >> the challenge of viewing objects that have ceased to exist.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Would there be then the situation where one is perceiving/knowing not
> >> the
> >> > object per se but only a reflection or a compromise  of it and still
> >> think
> >> > that he is perceiving the object itself?  Would this then fall in the
> >> > category of ayathartha jnana, bhrama?  Or would this be something
> like a
> >> > 'samvaadi / visamvaadi bhrama' of the Panchadashi?
> >> >
> >> > HH Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Swaminah had once remarked: when X rays
> >> are
> >> > used to get a view of a fetus, for instance, what the resultant
> picture
> >> we
> >> > get to see is not the fetus 'as it is' but only that of the object
> that
> >> has
> >> > reacted to the X ray.  I think somewhat similar would be the case.
> >> >
> >> > regards
> >> > subbu
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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