[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

H S Chandramouli hschandramouli at gmail.com
Sun May 16 06:24:25 EDT 2021

Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,

You had observed in your post dated 11 May the following

<< In SiddhAnta, perception is said to be at the place of origin. Also,
shabda does not travel from place of origin to some other place of
perception. If it does, then how exactly does it happen. Clearly
veechi-tarang is refuted >>,

As I had mentioned earlier, my  understanding  is that sound perception is
not necessarily at the place of its origin, but  somewhere outside of the
subject. This could be a deviation from VP, but perhaps not a serious one.

I don’t think it is mentioned explicitly  anywhere in the Sidhanta that
shabda does not travel from place of origin. I am open to correction on
this. If such a statement has indeed been made, then my understanding is a
deviation from the same. But I do not think such an understanding leads to
any other violation of the epistemological position.

Shabda is accepted as a guna of AkAsha. Being a guna there is no objection
to consider the same as spreading out in AkAsha itself from the place of
origin. This could be so by definition. Its intensity would be diminishing
as it spreads out leading to its complete decay at some point or the other.
This is in line with anubhava as well.

Regarding refutation of veechi-tarang, not necessarily so. I am copying
below an interesting footnote by Sri SSS in his translation of BSB 2-2-24
which reflects my thinking also.

BSB 2-2-24  <<…. आगमप्रामाण्यात्तावत् ‘ आत्मन आकाशः सम्भूतः’ (तै. उ. २ । १ ।
 इत्यादिश्रुतिभ्य आकाशस्य च वस्तुत्वप्रसिद्धिः । विप्रतिपन्नान्प्रति तु
शब्दगुणानुमेयत्वं वक्तव्यम् — गन्धादीनां गुणानां
पृथिव्यादिवस्त्वाश्रयत्वदर्शनात् । >>

<< …… AgamaprAmANyAttAvat ‘ Atmana AkAshaH sambhUtaH’ (tai. u. 2 | 1 | 1)
ityAdishrutibhya AkAshasya cha vastutvaprasiddhiH | vipratipannAnprati tu
shabdaguNAnumeyatvaM vaktavyam — gandhAdInAM guNAnAM
pRRithivyAdivastvAshrayatvadarshanAt | >>,

Translation (Swami Gambhirananda)  <<  …..As for Vedic proof, it is
established from such Vedic texts as, ‘AkAsha originated from the Self’
(Tai. II-1-1), that AkAsha is a substance. But for those who are not
convinced by Vedic texts, it can be inferred through its quality of sound,
for qualities such as smell and the rest are seen to abide in substances
like earth and the rest >>.

Footnote 2 in Kannada Translation by Sri SSS, page 94  ( Kannada to English
translation mine)

<< Similar to smell etc, that for which shabda is a unique quality should
be inferred to be AkAsha. The vyatireka that there is no shabda without air
(Vayu)  does not appear to have been taken into consideration anywhere in
the Bhashya. It is not known if the proponents of the view that shabda is a
quality of AkAsha were advancing as a yukti (reasoning) in support of their
stand  that just as the manifestation of chaitanya in inert objects is to
be attributed to Chaitanya, manifestation of shabda in air (Vayu)  is to be
attributed to AkAsha only >>.

My understanding is also the same as in the Footnote above.

Regarding  upapatti for speed of travel mentioned by Subbu Ji, anubhava
itself could be considered as the upapatti. Venkat Ji also had clarified

With this, I think all issues concerning the topic are covered.



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