[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Yet another Mahavakya in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Vinodh ji,

On Sun, 24 Oct 2021, 14:17 Vinodh, <vinodh.iitm at gmail.com> wrote:

>
Would you also agree that mahavakya shravana also falls under the same
> category of manana and nididhyasana?
>

No, it does not. shabda pramANa does not need any action from the hearer to
give rise to jnAna.

If you do see it differently, how do you explain the difference given that
> shravana also requires an action from the purusha just like the other two
> do?
>

The mahAvAkya does not depend on the desire or will of the individual to
reveal its object - as long as the hearer understands the language and has
a functioning sense of hearing, it will give rise to shAbdajnAna, without
necessitating the individual to act in a particular manner or think in a
particular manner. He will understand even if he does not want to.

Hence jnAna is not puruShatantra, dependent on the desire of the knower, it
is vastutantra.

The unique thing about shabda pramANa is that it is capable of giving rise
to aparoksha jnAna sometimes.

Specifically, the mahAvAkya is capable of giving rise to aparoksha jnAna.
The object of the mahAvAkya tattvamasi is consciousness, which is the
nature of the hearer himself.

When the mahAvAkya is heard and the hearer understands that the tat and
tvam padArtha must refer to consciousness by lakshaNa, in order for there
to be identity referred to by the word asi, the sentence meaning that it
reveals is consciousness free from all upAdhi-s except the vRtti itself.
Therefore, the vRtti avacChinna chaitanya is naturally one with the viShaya
chaitanya, which has the same existence as the pramAtA's chaitanya. The
conditions of the shAbdajnAna and viShaya to be pratyaksha are met.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan


Namaskaram 🙏
>
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 1:52 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Read this sentence as: "So if one sentence conveys two meanings, it is
>> not *one* vAkya, but two. "
>>
>> On Sun, 24 Oct 2021, 09:18 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Vinodh ji,
>>>
>>> Upon doing a search for the word mahAvAkya in advaitasharada, it appears
>>> only once in the prasthAna traya bhAShya-s.
>>>
>>> In the devatAdhikaraNa of the brahmasUtra, in the sUtra भावं तु
>>> बादरायणोऽस्ति हि ॥ ३३ ॥ (1.3.33), Shankaracharya raises a pUrvapaksha
>>> wherein he uses the word mahAvAkya in the sentence - न हि
>>> महावाक्येऽर्थप्रत्यायकेऽवान्तरवाक्यस्य पृथक्प्रत्यायकत्वमस्ति ;
>>>
>>> However here the word mahAvAkya does not mean jIva brahma aikya bodhaka
>>> vAkya, it means a combination of words or sentences that serve to convey a
>>> unitary import.  Jaimini in his pUrvamImAmsA sUtra has defined a vAkya as
>>> अर्थैकत्वात् एकं वाक्यम् - that is, a vAkya is not merely a sentence - it
>>> is a combination of words that together conveys one meaning. So if one
>>> sentence conveys two meanings, it is not vAkya, but two. Conversely, if
>>> there are many sentences that together convey the same meaning, then
>>> together they are one vAkya - this is called vAkyaikavAkyatA.
>>>
>>> Here the context is the pUrvapakshi arguing that devatAs do not have the
>>> right to brahmajnAna, because the portions that talk of them having
>>> attained liberation occur in arthavAda portions which have ekavAkyatA with
>>> a vidhi and the mahAvAkya (the compound vAkya consisting of the vidhi and
>>> arthavAda taken as a unitary whole) has meaning only in the injunction.
>>> Therefore, when the mahAvAkya is conveying one meaning (do the act), we
>>> must ignore the arthavAda portions (avAntara vAkya) because a part of a
>>> vAkya cannot be said to have a meaning when that part in conjunction with
>>> the rest of the vAkya conveys a unitary meaning.
>>>
>>> That is by the by and not relevant to the topic.
>>>
>>> The only other reference by Shankaracharya that I could find is in the
>>> Vivekachudamani - here the meaning of mahAvAkya is a vAkya that conveys the
>>> meaning of the identity of jIva and Brahman.
>>>
>>> संलक्ष्य चिन्मात्रतया यदात्मनो -
>>> रखण्डभावः परिचीयते बुधैः ।
>>> एवं महावाक्यशतेन कथ्यते
>>> ब्रह्मात्मनोरैक्यमखण्डभावः ॥ २५१ ॥
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 23 Oct 2021, 14:07 Vinodh, <vinodh.iitm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sri Venkatraghavan ji and other respected scholars, an additional
>>>> question strikes me about "mahavakya" upon further reflection.
>>>>
>>>> Was this word "mahavakya" ever used by Shankara Bhagavadpada himself?
>>>> What is the first known usage of this word?
>>>>
>>>> Namaskaram 🙏
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 6:13 PM 'Raghav Kumar' via advaitin <
>>>> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Namaste Venkatraghavan ji
>>>>> I recollect many Acharyas mentioning tasmAdva etastmAt atmana
>>>>> AkAshassambhUtaH etc as a mahavAkya since tasmAt and etAsmAt are in
>>>>> samAnAdhikaraNyam. That part is quite clear. There are thus many mahAvAkyas
>>>>> other than the four canonical ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> But one clarification on mananam etc  being action -
>>>>>
>>>>> However, by “meditation” here, I mean the mananam and nididhyasanam
>>>>> of the statement (that is, a thorough analysis and reflection on the
>>>>> statement) that reveals that jiva is Brahman until one attains firm
>>>>> conviction of this Truth. Why is this required?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is also an action only.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mananam and nidhidhyAsanam (in the context of Advaita vedAnta) are of
>>>>> the nature of vastu-tantra manovRttis - being pramANa-based and serve only
>>>>> to highlight the Gyaanam itself. They are surely different from upAsana (be
>>>>> it even nirguNa upAsana) which is puruSha-tantra.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example mithyAtva niscaya through the yukti using the prasiddha
>>>>> hetu would be part of mananam. Does such mananam constitute karma/upAsana?
>>>>> It would appear not. The yuktis used in mananam only give rise to "seeing
>>>>> rightly" and removing false notions. All such pramANa vyApAra is not really
>>>>> karma, don't you think? I do understand the commonality of the result being
>>>>> pratibandhaka nivRtti for both karma/upAsanam and mananam/nidhidhyAsanam.
>>>>> Yet I understand the latter to be not karma. Is that tenable?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Om
>>>>> Raghav
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>>> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 at 5:27 pm, 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin
>>>>> <advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is also worth noting that shravanadi are called "sadhana" merely
>>>>> out of limitation of language and from the point of view of an ajnani. This
>>>>> is because the Truth, which is eternally present, need not need be attained
>>>>> as a siddhi after performing some action.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> praNAms Sri Vinod prabhuji
>>>>>
>>>>> Hare Krishna
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, jnApakaM hi shAstraM na tu kArakaM, shAstra would teach us only
>>>>> bhUta vastu ( that which is already exists) and it does not create anything
>>>>> new.  shravaNAdi sAdhana is ofcourse for the ajnAni, who still see the
>>>>> pramAtru, pramANa and prameya triputi rvyavahAra.  For him the direct means
>>>>> is shravaNAdi sAdhana says bhAshyakAra : sAkshAdeva cha kAraNatvAt
>>>>> shravaNamanananidhidhyAsanAnAm because shruti itself says AtmA vA Are
>>>>> drashtavyaH shOtavyaH, maNtavyO nidhidhyAsitavyaH.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> bhaskar
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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