[Advaita-l] Fwd: [advaitin] Yet another Mahavakya in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

[Venkatraghavan S]

Sounds good.

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021, 09:11 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste.
>
> I am definitely of the understanding that aparOkshajnAna is not possible
> through recollection alone. As per Sri Bhagavatpada, aparOksha jnAna arises
> ONLY on shravaNa. This is my understanding.
>
> Best to conclude the discussion at this stage I think. On my part it is **
> agree to disagree**.
>
> Regards
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 1:35 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste,
>> The answer to that question was I don't recall any such reference.
>> However I thought you went on to conclude from such a (possible) absence
>> that aparoksha jnAna was therefore not possible from a recollection.
>> If you are instead not saying that, I don't think there is any argument
>> here.
>>
>> Regards
>> Venkatraghavan
>>
>> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021, 08:37 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste.
>>>
>>> Reg  <<  One cannot hold that no  such recollection of the mahAvAkya
>>> takes place  >>,
>>>
>>> I think we are deviating from the original question. I have not stated
>>> anywhere that recollection of the mahAvAkya heard earlier does not take
>>> place at all. I had repeated this earlier also. The issue was whether such
>>> recollection at a later date can by itself lead to aparOksha jnAna without
>>> any further effort. Any references to that effect in the Bhashya. The
>>> intention was not any independent analysis of the issue. The issue was
>>> whether there are any references to that effect in the Bhashya.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 12:49 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste,
>>>>
>>>> From a practical perspective too, in manana and nididhyAsana also, one
>>>> recalls the shruti vAkya heard in shravaNam. All recollection is due to
>>>> samskAra of prior experience. One cannot hold that no  such recollection of
>>>> the mahAvAkya takes place.
>>>>
>>>> Nor can one say that such a recollection of the mahAvAkya during manana
>>>> and nididhyAsana cannot give rise to jnAna either. It contradicts both
>>>> experience and the bhAShya to BS1.1.4 which
>>>> says श्रवणवदवगत्यर्थत्वान्मनननिदिध्यासनयोः.
>>>>
>>>> Even if that is somehow true and jnAna cannot occur during manana
>>>> nididhyAsana - Suppose a person has overcome all his jnAna pratibandhas
>>>> after manana nididhyAsana over a long time.
>>>> It is not appropriate to insist that one must again go back to their
>>>> guru for mahAvAkya shravaNam so that they can get jnAna. And if they don't,
>>>> that they cannot be liberated in that birth!
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021, 17:30 V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 9:25 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Namaste,
>>>>>> samskAra need not be mentioned - as long as the possibility is not
>>>>>> denied,
>>>>>> there is nothing to say it is impossible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the Brihadaranyaka mantra 4.4.2  तं विद्याकर्मणी समन्वारभेते
>>>>> पूर्वप्रज्ञा च ॥ २ ॥  Shankara says for vidya: विद्याकर्मणी — विद्या
>>>>> च कर्म च विद्याकर्मणी विद्या सर्वप्रकारा विहिता प्रतिषिद्धा च अविहिता
>>>>> अप्रतिषिद्धा च,  all these learnt, studied, are part of the jiva who
>>>>> transmigrates to another body. दृश्यते च केषाञ्चित् कासुचित्क्रियासु
>>>>> चित्रकर्मादिलक्षणासु विनैव इह अभ्यासेन जन्मत एव कौशलम् , कासुचित्
>>>>> अत्यन्तसौकर्ययुक्तास्वपि अकौशलं केषाञ्चित् ;  what has been
>>>>> learnt/practiced stays with the individual forever as vasana and manifests
>>>>> in another body without the need for its abhyasa afresh.  He gives the
>>>>> example of drawing, etc. And concludes: तस्मात् एतत् त्रयं
>>>>> शाकटिकसम्भारस्थानीयं परलोकपथ्यदनं विद्याकर्मपूर्वप्रज्ञाख्यम् । यस्मात्
>>>>> विद्याकर्मणी पूर्वप्रज्ञा च देहान्तरप्रतिपत्त्युपभोगसाधनम् , तस्मात्
>>>>> विद्याकर्मादि शुभमेव समाचरेत् , यथा इष्टदेहसंयोगोपभोगौ स्याताम् — इति
>>>>> प्रकरणार्थः ॥  Since what is acquired stays, one should endeavor to do the
>>>>> good alone so that one gets a good life in future.
>>>>>
>>>>> From this it is clear that vidya, whether it is laukika or adhyatma,
>>>>> acquired in one life manifests in another life when the necessary
>>>>> circumstances are in place. So, it remains as samskara and aids
>>>>> its perfection.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a famous subhashita too:
>>>>>
>>>>> गतेऽपि वयसि ग्राह्या विद्या सर्वात्मना बुधैः |
>>>>> यद्द्यापि स्यान्न फलदा सुलभा सान्यSजन्मनि  |
>>>>>
>>>>> The  wise and learned persons have ordained that 'Vidyaa' should be
>>>>> learnt even if  a person  becomes aged.
>>>>> Although such learning may not  be fruitful to him during his
>>>>> lifetime, in his next birth it is easier for him to acquire knowledge
>>>>> because of his 'Samskaars' in his previous birth .
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>> subbu
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>