[Advaita-l] Fwd: [advaitin] Yet another Mahavakya in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Bhaskar ji
Exactly - I didn't think of that example, thanks. We can't dissmiss that as
arthavAda either, because by devatAdhikaraNa nyAya, it is a case of
bhUtArthavAda.

So if we accept that that is a valid case of aparoksha jnAna, then either
mahAvAkya shravaNam being the cause of aparoksha jnAna must be denied,
which is siddhAnta hAni, or we must accept that a samskAra of mahAvAkya
shravaNa can sometimes be sufficient for aparoksha jnAna later.

Regards
Venkatraghavan

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021, 09:15 Bhaskar YR, <bhaskar.yr at hitachienergy.com> wrote:

> praNAms
> Hare Krishna
>
> One example comes to my mind : vAmadeva realized in his mother's womb.
> How can it be possible with doing the shravaNAdi sAdhana in his previous
> janma??  Even though it is not mentioned that he recollected the sharuti
> vAkya shravaNAdi sAdhana which he did in his previous janma, it is to be
> understood that sAdhana would fructify over a period of time when the time
> is ripe and more importantly without any effort in the current janma
> towards that jnana.  It is a possibility in some special cases like ramaNa
> who all of a sudden realized the secret of death without formal education (
> mahAvAkya shravaNAdi sAdhana in particular)in shAstra-s.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Advaita-l <advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> On Behalf
> Of Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 1:36 PM
> To: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> Cc: Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>; A discussion group for Advaita
> Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fwd: [advaitin] Yet another Mahavakya in the
> Brihadaranyaka Upanishad
>
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> Namaste,
> The answer to that question was I don't recall any such reference.
> However I thought you went on to conclude from such a (possible) absence
> that aparoksha jnAna was therefore not possible from a recollection.
> If you are instead not saying that, I don't think there is any argument
> here.
>
> Regards
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021, 08:37 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Namaste.
> >
> > Reg  <<  One cannot hold that no  such recollection of the mahAvAkya
> > takes place  >>,
> >
> > I think we are deviating from the original question. I have not stated
> > anywhere that recollection of the mahAvAkya heard earlier does not
> > take place at all. I had repeated this earlier also. The issue was
> > whether such recollection at a later date can by itself lead to
> > aparOksha jnAna without any further effort. Any references to that
> > effect in the Bhashya. The intention was not any independent analysis
> > of the issue. The issue was whether there are any references to that
> effect in the Bhashya.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 12:49 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Namaste,
> >>
> >> From a practical perspective too, in manana and nididhyAsana also,
> >> one recalls the shruti vAkya heard in shravaNam. All recollection is
> >> due to samskAra of prior experience. One cannot hold that no  such
> >> recollection of the mahAvAkya takes place.
> >>
> >> Nor can one say that such a recollection of the mahAvAkya during
> >> manana and nididhyAsana cannot give rise to jnAna either. It
> >> contradicts both experience and the bhAShya to BS1.1.4 which says
> >> श्रवणवदवगत्यर्थत्वान्मनननिदिध्यासनयोः.
> >>
> >> Even if that is somehow true and jnAna cannot occur during manana
> >> nididhyAsana - Suppose a person has overcome all his jnAna
> >> pratibandhas after manana nididhyAsana over a long time.
> >> It is not appropriate to insist that one must again go back to their
> >> guru for mahAvAkya shravaNam so that they can get jnAna. And if they
> >> don't, that they cannot be liberated in that birth!
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Venkatraghavan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021, 17:30 V Subrahmanian, <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 9:25 PM Venkatraghavan S via Advaita-l <
> >>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Namaste,
> >>>> samskAra need not be mentioned - as long as the possibility is not
> >>>> denied, there is nothing to say it is impossible.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In the Brihadaranyaka mantra 4.4.2  तं विद्याकर्मणी समन्वारभेते
> >>> पूर्वप्रज्ञा च ॥ २ ॥  Shankara says for vidya: विद्याकर्मणी — विद्या च
> >>> कर्म च विद्याकर्मणी विद्या सर्वप्रकारा विहिता प्रतिषिद्धा च अविहिता
> >>> अप्रतिषिद्धा च,  all these learnt, studied, are part of the jiva who
> >>> transmigrates to another body. दृश्यते च केषाञ्चित् कासुचित्क्रियासु
> >>> चित्रकर्मादिलक्षणासु विनैव इह अभ्यासेन जन्मत एव कौशलम् , कासुचित्
> >>> अत्यन्तसौकर्ययुक्तास्वपि अकौशलं केषाञ्चित् ;  what has been
> >>> learnt/practiced stays with the individual forever as vasana and
> manifests
> >>> in another body without the need for its abhyasa afresh.  He gives the
> >>> example of drawing, etc. And concludes: तस्मात् एतत् त्रयं
> >>> शाकटिकसम्भारस्थानीयं परलोकपथ्यदनं विद्याकर्मपूर्वप्रज्ञाख्यम् । यस्मात्
> >>> विद्याकर्मणी पूर्वप्रज्ञा च देहान्तरप्रतिपत्त्युपभोगसाधनम् , तस्मात्
> >>> विद्याकर्मादि शुभमेव समाचरेत् , यथा इष्टदेहसंयोगोपभोगौ स्याताम् — इति
> >>> प्रकरणार्थः ॥  Since what is acquired stays, one should endeavor to do
> the
> >>> good alone so that one gets a good life in future.
> >>>
> >>> From this it is clear that vidya, whether it is laukika or adhyatma,
> >>> acquired in one life manifests in another life when the necessary
> >>> circumstances are in place. So, it remains as samskara and aids
> >>> its perfection.
> >>>
> >>> There is a famous subhashita too:
> >>>
> >>> गतेऽपि वयसि ग्राह्या विद्या सर्वात्मना बुधैः |
> >>> यद्द्यापि स्यान्न फलदा सुलभा सान्यSजन्मनि  |
> >>>
> >>> The  wise and learned persons have ordained that 'Vidyaa' should be
> >>> learnt even if  a person  becomes aged.
> >>> Although such learning may not  be fruitful to him during his lifetime,
> >>> in his next birth it is easier for him to acquire knowledge because of
> his
> >>> 'Samskaars' in his previous birth .
> >>>
> >>> regards
> >>> subbu
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>> Venkatraghavan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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