[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] Bhavarupa and Orders of Reality

[Ven Balakrishnan]

Why not keep it simple?

Orders of reality, etc are just provisional concepts. Sankara says that Brahman is homogeneous, part less and unchanging, and we are in reality That.

Everything else - mind, body, world is a superimposition, illusory, ignorance.  There is no creation, no destruction, no jiva . . . because everything is an illusion, the nature of a dream. A dream cannot be destroyed as it has no existence; it just vanishes on Self-realisation, like the mistaken snake in a rope

Our task is to remove our attachment to the world, to the body and to the mind, as they are all not-Self.   Getting lost in lexicology and concepts does not further that. 

Sankara in BSB 4.1.2:
“Although the Self to be realised is partless, still many constituents are superimposed on It, such as the body, sense-organs, mind, intellect, perception of objects, etc. That being so, one false constituent may be discarded at one attempt at comprehension, and another at another”

And as Ramanamaharishi expanded upon in Ulladu Narpadu, v7:
“Although the world and the mind rise and subside simultaneously, the world shines because of the mind.  That which is the Whole and which shines without appearing and disappearing as the base for the appearance and disappearance of the world and mind, alone is the Reality.”

And in Nan Yar:
“Therefore, summarily rejecting all the physical adjuncts and their functions (incl mind), saying ‘I am not this: no, nor am I this, nor this’ — that which then remains separate and alone by itself, that pure Awareness is what I am. This Awareness self is by its very nature Sat-Chit-Ananda, (Being-Consciousness-Bliss).”

Sent from my iPad

> On 24 Dec 2022, at 09:45, Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> Hari Om Chandramouli ji.
> 
> In sansarga-adhyAsa, can it not happen between objects of different order
> of reality? Brahman and world, there is sansarga-adhyAsa. Idam and Rajat,
> there is sansarga-adhyAsa.
> 
> How do you state that sansarga-adhyAsa is between objects having same order
> of reality.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> On Sat, 24 Dec, 2022, 2:12 pm H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> 
>> Namaste.
>> 
>> Reg  <<  It is said that avidya is bhavarupa i.e. something that is
>> existentent because otherwise jnana cannot remove it. My question is - by
>> existence what is meant - conceptual existence or physical existence? >>,
>> 
>> avidyA as bhAvarUpa involves both *conceptual* meaning jnAna , as well as
>> *physical* meaning *vastu* or *object*. Technically it is termed involving
>> both अर्थाध्यास (arthAdhyAsa)  and ज्ञानाध्यास (j~nAnAdhyAsa).
>> 
>> Conceptual  alone would mean something relating to jnAna ONLY. Nothing
>> *physical* associated with it. That makes avidyA  *abhAvarUpa*. Only
>> ज्ञानाध्यास (j~nAnAdhyAsa), but no अर्थाध्यास (arthAdhyAsa).
>> 
>> Reg  << The second question on which I am seeking clarity is on orders of
>> reality. It seems to me that whenever there is adhyasa, the substratum and
>> the superimposition belong to two different orders of reality. If this is
>> not so, subsequent sublation is impossible  >>,
>> 
>> AdhyAsa always involves different Orders of Reality. There are  different
>> types of AdhyAsa. They are categorized also in different ways.
>> 
>> One way of categorization is  स्वरूपाध्यास (svarUpAdhyAsa) and संसर्गाध्यास
>> (saMsargAdhyAsa).
>> 
>> In स्वरूपाध्यास (svarUpAdhyAsa) the entities involved are themselves
>> considered to be of  different Orders of Reality. Superimposition of
>> Rope-Snake on Rope,Creation on Brahman are examples of  स्वरूपाध्यास
>> (svarUpAdhyAsa). Rope-Snake and  Creation belong to different Orders of
>> Reality  with respect to Rope and Brahman respectively, and are  considered
>> अध्यास  by their  very nature (स्वरूप  svarUpa).
>> 
>> In संसर्गाध्यास (saMsargAdhyAsa)  on the other hand, the entities are
>> considered as of the same Order of Reality, but their relationship or
>> association   is  of a different Order of Reality and considered as अध्यास
>> (adhyAsa). Their relationship  or association  can neither be declared
>> related or nonrelated  अनिर्वचनीय (anirvachanIya). Examples are mirror and
>> reflection there in, clear crystal and  its coloration due to a nearby
>> flower. In this case, mirror/reflection as well as crystal/coloration are
>> of one Order  of Reality,  while their relationship or association is
>> another Order of Reality.
>> 
>> Another way of categorization is निरुपाधिक अध्यास (nirupAdhika adhyAsa) and
>> सोपाधिक अध्यास (sopAdhika adhyAsa).  They could be considered as broadly
>> corresponding to  स्वरूपाध्यास (svarUpAdhyAsa) and संसर्गाध्यास
>> (saMsargAdhyAsa) respectively.
>> 
>> My understanding.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Chandramouli
>> 
>> On Sat, Dec 24, 2022 at 12:32 AM S Venkatraman <svenkat52 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Namaste,
>>> From all the discussions going on in this forum, I am quite confused
>> about
>>> the meaning of the term bhavarupa and hence am seeking clarity.
>>> It is said that avidya is bhavarupa i.e. something that is existentent
>>> because otherwise jnana cannot remove it. My question is - by existence
>>> what is meant - conceptual existence or physical existence?
>>> The second question on which I am seeking clarity is on orders of
>> reality.
>>> It seems to me that whenever there is adhyasa, the substratum and the
>>> superimposition belong to two different orders of reality. If this is not
>>> so, subsequent sublation is impossible.
>>> Example 1 - World is superimposed on Brahman due to avidya. World belongs
>>> to Vyaavahaarika satta and Brahman to Paaramaarthika satta.
>>> Example 2 - Snake is superimposed on Rope due to bad light. Snake belongs
>>> to Praatibhaasika satta and rope to Vyaavahaarika satta.
>>> Is my understanding right?
>>> Thank you and regards,
>>> Venkat
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On 23-Dec-2022, at 10:30 PM, Jaishankar Narayanan <jai1971 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Namaste,
>>> According to Bhaskar ji avidyA-kalpita (atyanta asat
>> jnAna-abhAva-kalpita)
>>> mAyA is vyAvahArika satya and it is ‘existing thing’ like water!! and it
>>> is anirvachaneeya.
>>> Really great logic!
>>> with love and prayers,
>>> Jaishankar
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