[Advaita-l] Paul Hacker on Avidya in Brahma Sutras

[Michael Chandra Cohen]

Sri Vinodh, pranam.
Thanks for the fine, well stated manana. It is also proper Sankara bhasya
Vedanta (as opposed to the Vedanta, pos, -Sankara). Simply, if it is
understood that adhyasa is the problem which is caused by non-recognition
of Self, conundrums such as locus become moot. But, if adhyasa is thought
to have some actual existential status then all sorts of explanations are
required and we get the post-Sankara logicans.

The problem, highlighted by Hacker's study, narrows down to waking as a
relatively real state, highlighted by the Dalal article, or waking as
adhyasa. The difference between pot/clay drstanta and rope/snake. The
former give pot a dependent status but not unreal. There is no snake in
rope/snake drstanta. These are among the arguments convincingly made by Sri
Swami Satchidanandendraji/SSS.

It seems to me you have reasoned yourself in line with SSS

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 1:08 AM Vinodh via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Sri Michael Cohen,
>
> The primal ignorance is the cause of the world according to the traditional
> (Shankara) view, as far as I understand.
>
> The pertinent question is where that avidya exists. If it be argued that it
> exists in the Brahman, then that appears contradictory because then even
> after becoming one with Brahman avidya will persist. On the other hand, if
> it be argued that it exists in the Jiva’s mind, then again it appears that
> this cannot be the case because avidya is the cause for the Jiva’s
> existence as an entity separate from others.
>
> The traditional answer that I have seen to this conundrum starts by asking
> to whom this question (of where avidya exists) arises. It cannot be one who
> knows Brahman and hence has become one with Brahman because for him there
> is no avidya and hence no question of where it exists. Therefore, avidya
> has to be said to exist in the one who is posing this question being
> unaware of Brahman. As an analogy, consider an illusion of a snake on a
> rope or of silver in a conch shell. For the one who knows the truth, the
> snake or the silver does not even exist. The one who sees the snake or
> silver does not see the underlying substratum of truth because of
> ignorance. When he is told that he does see the truth out of ignorance, he
> may ask where is this ignorance? It is of course within him who is posing
> this question! :)
>
> Of course, fundamentally, neither does the world nor does the ignorance
> that is said to have caused it exist. What exists is one without a second
> (advya), changeless (avyaya), and never born (aja). All the explanations
> about the cause of the world etc is given only to point to this one truth.
> They are all ultimately negated by the ‘neti neti’ vaakyas (‘not so’). This
> is the method of the Vedanta — adhyaaropa apavaada or false superimposition
> followed by negation. The ignorance is falsely superimposed on the truth to
> seemingly give an explanation for the cause of the world to the beginner
> student, only to later negate the existence of the world and its cause.
>
> Om tat sat
>
>
> On Sun 15. May 2022 at 23:31, Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Sri Venkatesh, pranam. I don't know how you can say that mulAvidya - the
> > material seed, present in deepsleep, a bhavarupa shakti -  is not
> > considered in traditional circles to be the cause of the world and thus
> > "relatively real". Here is a link to a recent eminent encyclopedic entry
> > repeatedly referring to a relative real satta.
> >
> > https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/shankara/
> >
> > On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 11:23 AM Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste
> > >
> > > The question of Mula Avidya is discussed extensively in traditional
> > circles
> > > also. It is a misconception to think Mula Avidya as a really existing
> > thing
> > > giving rise to all Avidyas. No disciple of Sankara has said it really
> > > exists. For explaining the world and vyavahara this Avidya is used.
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 6:41 PM Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It seems to me any defense of Mulavidya vada would have to account
> for
> > > > Hacker's exhaustive study. Sengaku Mayeda performed the same analysis
> > on
> > > > Upadesa Sahasri and came to similar conclusions
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nE0s2sFIqc0fYdgto0rGlW16xx6lsNEDJKsWVr6CJPw/edit?usp=sharing
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > -Venkatesh
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