[Advaita-l] [advaitin] A talk on avidyA by Manjushree

[Jaishankar Narayanan]

Dear Rao ji,

The only way to know our real nature is through shastra-pramana - shastra
shravana from a Guru and then manana and nididhyaasana with the guidance of
the Guru.

With love and prayers,

Jaishankar

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022, 09:07 VTCS Rao, <vtcsrao at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Many thanks for the excellent summary. Jaishankar ji.  Much appreciated.
>
>
>
> However, I have this question bothering me always. It is our mind which is
> helping us to get rational, analytical interpretation of what we read and
> it is the same mind which perceives the material objects
>
>
>
> How we can conclude a part of what it perceives is true and other part is
> not? Though we all read understand the Atman is beyond mind and intellect,
> but isn’t it our mind saying so.
>
>
>
> Any views on this  from this esteemed elite  group ?
>
>
>
> Regards/ VTCS
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *Jaishankar Narayanan via Advaita-l
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> *Sent: *21 November 2022 08:56
> *To: *advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> *Cc: *Jaishankar Narayanan <jai1971 at gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Advaita-l] Advaita-l Digest, Vol 220, Issue 10
>
>
>
> Namaste,
>
> I listened to the below talk shared in this group a few days back and have
> a few points to share.
>
> The speaker mentions at around 54 min the below
>
> For traditional advaitins adhyaaropa - apavaada is one of the methods the
> Upanishads use. For them there are other methods like Kaarana-kaarya
> prakriya, avasthatraya-prakriya, panchakosha-prakriya. But Swamiji shows
> that these different prakriyas are only varieties of adhyaaropa-apavada.
>
> The above is a complete misrepresentation of the traditional teachers. In
> every prakriya there is adhyaaropa and apavada without which advaita cannot
> be established. That is how it was taught to me by my Gurus who are
> traditional teachers. Even if you take an introductory book like Vedanta
> Sara the author details shareera-traya, pancha-kosha, avastha-traya and
> then says
>
>  एवमध्यारोपः ॥ १३६॥ अपवादो नाम रज्जुविवर्तस्य सर्पस्य
> रज्जुमात्रत्ववद्वस्तुविवर्तस्यावस्तुनोऽज्ञानादेः प्रपञ्चस्य
> वस्तुमात्रत्वम्
> ॥ १३७॥
>
> In kaarana-kaarya prakriya - kaarya is mithya and so negated. The
> kaaranatvam also is mithya and so negated. In avasthatraya-prakriya
> experienced world is negated as mithya and the status of being a subject
> for the experiencer is also negated. In panchkosha prakriya too it is
> similar.
>
> Further at around 49 min she says
>
> Swamiji says the very concept of avidya itself is adhyaaropa. Further she
> says Avidya is the primary adhyaaropa - mula adhyaaropa - it has no
> ultimate ontological status. It is used for a specific purpose (as a
> pedagogical tool) temporarily and then retracted after its purpose stands
> served.
>
> Now the above applies exactly to moolavidya. In fact with the above
> understanding, mithya- ajnaana / moolavidya answers all the ontological and
> epistemological questions satisfactorily but an atyanta-asat avidya as
> proposed by Swamiji will lead to serious ontological and epistemological
> issues.
>
> Further she claims that Swami ji does not accept the classification of
> jnaana-adhyaasa and artha-adhyaasa. In that case how jeevanmukti can be
> explained is a puzzle. In fact Shankara clearly accepts that the dvaita
> perception is there for both jnaani and ajnaani but the jnaani does not
> take it as tattva. See for example Br. Up 3.5.1 bhashya
>
> अस्ति चायं भेदकृतो मिथ्याव्यवहारः, येषां ब्रह्मतत्त्वादन्यत्वेन वस्तु
> विद्यते, येषां च नास्ति ; परमार्थवादिभिस्तु श्रुत्यनुसारेण निरूप्यमाणे
> वस्तुनि — किं तत्त्वतोऽस्ति वस्तु किं वा नास्तीति, ब्रह्मैकमेवाद्वितीयं
> सर्वसंव्यवहारशून्यमिति निर्धार्यते ; तेन न कश्चिद्विरोधः ।
>
> Finally this idea of avidya being jnaana-abhaava is not new. It has been
> discussed in different texts and rejected for good reason. But still if
> some people find such prakriyas help them understand advaita then good luck
> to them. The traditional teaching method is quite anti-fragile and has
> answered all kinds of criticism already and so it will continue in spite of
> some new misguided criticisms.
>
> with love and prayers,
> Jaishankar
>
>
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 07:56:29 -0500
> > From: Michael Chandra Cohen <michaelchandra108 at gmail.com>
> > To: advaitin at googlegroups.com
> > Cc: Advaita-L <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] [advaitin] A talk on avidyA by Manjushree
> >         Hegde in YT
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CAAz9PvFxJhMX0eMxTFAwdWYxVw0ikHYQtCcw2wTA1eqKe4OCMg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > I  believe this talk is a remarkable presentation on the debate between
> SSS
> > and mulAvidya vada - their historical context, clear statements of both
> > positions, pro and cons of both positions and a worthy resolution.
> >
> > Smt. Hegde is a voice to hear, erudite and succinct and a pleasure to
> > listen to regardless of your vada.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 6:27 AM 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin <
> > advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > > praNAms
> > >
> > > Hare Krishna
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Below is the link.  Please listen to it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2Fsk8-uHvOCxo&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cbff2acd48f13497ea15308dacb702525%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638045979791893863%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5LH0EKc9N65DswzS2gKcwanMV8EnfKjVYagj0pZd%2B64%3D&reserved=0
> > > <
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2Fsk8-uHvOCxo&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cbff2acd48f13497ea15308dacb702525%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638045979792050100%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4jygT2lkXl2XOjLgToF1ONikdqMztNwdnBG6VB82U%2Fk%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > >
> > > bhaskar
> >
> > End of Advaita-l Digest, Vol 220, Issue 10
> > ******************************************
> >
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