[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Bhaskar ji,

On Wed, 8 Feb 2023, 09:05 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin, <
advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>
>    1. Chaitanya in association with only one name and form is Ishvara?
>
>
>    -   No, IshwarOpAdhi might be many not restricted to ONLY either shiva
>    or vishNu.  However it is not clear to me when upAsaka when doing the
>    upAsana doing the same to IshwarOpAdhi or karma/puNya phala janita
>    devatOpAdhi.  As you know most of the sUkta-s / hymns / mantra-s are about
>    indra, agni, varUna, sUrya etc. Chaitanya in association with all names and
>    forms is Ishvara?
>
> Depends on the upAsana - there are some upAsana-s which shAstra enjoins
where the upAsya is the indrAdi devatA, and some upAsana-s which shAstra
enjoins where the upAsya is  Ishvara. So the answer is dependent on what
the shAstra says for each upAsana.


>    -
>
>
>    1. Chaitanya in association with all names and forms is Ishvara?
>
> >  when Ishwara is the Chaitanya that Chaitanya should be one without
> second, and as per shruti this Chaitanya thought of becoming many (so
> kAmayata, satyancha anrutaNcha satyamabhavat yadidaM kincha) and also nAma
> rUpa in vyAkruta rUpa and avyAkruta rUpa must be this chaitanya only since
> he is the abhinna nimittOpadAna kAraNa.  vishwarUpa darshana comes to my
> mind to substantiate my thought that all nAma & rUpa is Ishwara only and
> there is nothing apart from IT.
>
Yes, Ishvara as abhinna-nimittopAdAna, is in and as everything.

>
>
>    1. Chaitanya in association with some names and forms is Ishvara? Or
>
>
>    - Frankly I think this is what you are saying by differentiating the
>    IshwarOpAdhi which is mAyA rUpa and which is through his own saMkalpa and
>    devatas’ upAdhi and jeeva upAdhi which is karma phala janita.
>
> This is also correct, on the basis of the shruti कार्योपाधिरयं जीवः
कारणोपाधिरीश्वरः. The name and form for Ishvara is not karma phala janita -
so none of Vishnu, Shiva, Devi, etc are karma phala janita upAdhi, they are
all mAyAmaya upAdhi / kAraNopAdhi.

Note - this does not mean that Ishvara is not present in kAryopAdhi - Hw is
present everywhere, but when it is said कारणोपाधिरीश्वरः, the kAraNa upAdhi
is Ishvara's alone, not the jIva's. The kArya upAdhi is jIva's, but Ishvara
is present there also.

Why are only some upAdhi-s worthy of worship as Ishvara and not upAdhi-s of
indrAdi? Because, the shAstra says that some particular names and forms are
suitable for worship as Ishvara (तस्माच्छास्त्रं प्रमाणं ते
कार्याकार्यव्यवस्थितौ)
- in doing such a worship, there is an adRShTa phala which is not otherwise
obtainable when Ishvara is worshipped in other forms. This does not mean
that Ishvara is not present in indrAdi upAdhi-s also (He is, as the
antaryAmi of indrAdi), but worshipping Ishvara as Shiva, Vishnu, Devi etc
is enjoined by shAstra and thus there is a particular adRShTa to be
obtained in doing so.

>
>    1. Chaitanya in association with no names and forms is Ishvara?
>
>
>    - This is called nirupAdhika, nirvishesha, niravayava para brahman.
>    Ishwara when taken in the sense of samartha / ruler / lord etc. then he is
>    sOpAdhika but  as per my understanding upAdhi cannot be restricted to some
>    specified forms like ONLY vishNu or shiva’s specific features (like third
>    eye in forehead of shiva or ksheera sAgara shesha shaayi vishNu) he can
>    assume any form any time …but it is again force us to conclude that in
>    vyavahAra there is some Chaitanya that has the capability of wear anything
>    as per it’s sva-eccha and bless some other Chaitanya/s in some karma janita
>    shareera.  In this scenario though Chaitanya is one we are seeing the bheda
>    in Ishwara Chaitanya and jeeva Chaitanya and former is capable of uplifting
>    the later.
>
> We are still in vyavahAra, so let us not go to nirguNa brahma - even with
saguNa brahma, He (Ishvara) can be said to be associated with no names and
forms also. As antaryAmi, Ishvara is associated with all jIva-upAdhi-s, but
He is also distinct from them.

> Now kindly clarify where there is mixing of vyavahArika and pAramArthis
> satya in my stand here.
>
You are bringing paramArtha satya in the last option. All four options are
being considered in the realm of vyavahAra only.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan

>
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>
> bhaskar
>
>
>
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