[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[V Subrahmanian]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 7:10 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste.
>
> Reg  <<  ज्ञानकर्मभ्यां समुच्चिताभ्यां प्रजापतित्वप्राप्तिर्व्याख्याता ;
> केवलप्राणदर्शनेन च — ‘तद्धैतल्लोकजिदेव’ इत्यादिना । प्रजापतेः फलभूतस्य
> सृष्टिस्थितिसंहारेषु जगतः स्वातन्त्र्यादिविभूत्युपवर्णनेन
> ज्ञानकर्मणोर्वैदिकयोः फलोत्कर्षो वर्णयितव्य इत्येवमर्थमारभ्यते । >>,
>
> <<  j~nAnakarmabhyAM samuchchitAbhyAM prajApatitvaprAptirvyAkhyAtA ;
> kevalaprANadarshanena cha — ‘taddhaitallokajideva’ ityAdinA | prajApateH
> phalabhUtasya sRRiShTisthitisaMhAreShu jagataH
> svAtantryAdivibhUtyupavarNanena j~nAnakarmaNorvaidikayoH phalotkarSho
> varNayitavya ityevamarthamArabhyate | >>,
>
> BUBV 1-4-51 states the meaning for the term Viraj in this context of
> Creation etc. in the same way practically as in the earlier quote in
> respect of BUB 1-2-1.
>
> <<  योसावतीन्द्रियोऽग्राह्यः  सूक्ष्मोऽव्यक्तः  सनातनः ।
> सर्वभूतमयोऽचिन्त्य  स  एव स्वयमुद्भवौ ।  >>
>
> <<  yosAvatIndriyo.agrAhyaH  sUkShmo.avyaktaH  sanAtanaH |
> sarvabhUtamayo.achintya  sa  eva svayamudbhavau  | >>
>
> Sri Anandagiri Acharya in his tIka on this sloka mentions
>
> <<  पर  एव स्वयमेवाव्याकृतसूत्रद्वारा  विराड्भावेनुद्भूत  इत्यर्थः॥ >>.
>
> <<  para  eva svayamevAvyAkRRitasUtradvArA  virADbhAvenudbhUta
> ityarthaH  || >>.
>
> It is Iswara only , in the form of Viraj , who is the Creator.
>

In that case, is the Viraj a jiva who has attained that state by the
sadhana of jnana-karma samucchaya?  The bhashyam says:

*प्रजापतेः फलभूतस्य* सृष्टिस्थितिसंहारेषु जगतः
स्वातन्त्र्यादिविभूत्युपवर्णनेन ज्ञानकर्मणोर्वैदिकयोः फलोत्कर्षो वर्णयितव्य
इत्येवमर्थमारभ्यते ।

Prajapati is a 'phala', result, of a certain sadhana. Does someone with a
sadhana attaining the status of Prajapati/Virat have the power to create,
etc. independently? Also, is it not a contradiction with the Brahma Sutra
'Jagatvyapara varjyam..' which is stated to be the 'sole' domain of nitya
siddha Ishwara?  That is the point I was making.

regards
subbu


> Regards
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 5:50 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Feb 2023, 4:39 pm H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Subrahmanian Ji
>>>
>>> Reg  <<  We have statements in the Bhashya such as
>>> the person who has acquired the post of prajapati /Hiranyagarbha is
>>> stated
>>> to have 'independent ability to create, sustain and withdraw'.  There is
>>> a
>>> very specific statement of Shankaracharya in the Brihadaranyaka Bhashya
>>> to
>>> this effect >>
>>>
>>> And
>>>
>>> <<  So, that H cannot be the Creator,
>>> Sustainer and Destroyer. But Shankara says so. That is what is
>>> intriguing.
>>> It requires a thorough study of the Bhashyas to reconcile this. We cannot
>>> say that this independence is relative as H is not admitted anywhere to
>>> be
>>> the sustainer, etc. Hence this problem. I have not got a convincing
>>> solution to this so far >.
>>>
>>> I presume reference is to BUB 1-2-1.
>>>
>>
>> Namaste
>>
>> It is from BUB 1.4.1
>>
>> Bhashya for Br.Up. mantra 1.4.1:
>>
>>
>>  ज्ञानकर्मभ्यां समुच्चिताभ्यां प्रजापतित्वप्राप्तिर्व्याख्याता ;
>> केवलप्राणदर्शनेन च — ‘तद्धैतल्लोकजिदेव’ इत्यादिना । प्रजापतेः फलभूतस्य
>> सृष्टिस्थितिसंहारेषु जगतः स्वातन्त्र्यादिविभूत्युपवर्णनेन
>> ज्ञानकर्मणोर्वैदिकयोः फलोत्कर्षो वर्णयितव्य इत्येवमर्थमारभ्यते ।
>>
>> The creation etc of the world is said here.
>>
>> Regards
>> subbu
>>
>>
>>
>> BU 1-2-1  <<  नैवेह किञ्चनाग्र आसीन्मृत्युनैवेदमावृतमासीदशनाययाशनाया हि
>>> मृत्युस्तन्मनोऽकुरुतात्मन्वी स्यामिति । >>
>>>
>>> <<  naiveha ki~nchanAgra
>>> AsInmRRityunaivedamAvRRitamAsIdashanAyayAshanAyA hi
>>> mRRityustanmano.akurutAtmanvI syAmiti | >>
>>>
>>> The Bhashya on this states
>>>
>>> BUB 1-2-1
>>>
>>> <<  स एष बुद्ध्यवस्थो हिरण्यगर्भो मृत्युरित्युच्यते । तेन मृत्युनेदं
>>> कार्यमावृतमासीत् , यथा पिण्डावस्थया मृदा घटादय आवृताः स्युरिति तद्वत् >>
>>>
>>> <<  sa eSha buddhyavastho hiraNyagarbho mRRityurityuchyate | tena
>>> mRRityunedaM kAryamAvRRitamAsIt , yathA piNDAvasthayA mRRidA ghaTAdaya
>>> AvRRitAH syuriti tadvat  >>
>>>
>>> <<  यद्वा  विराजमुद्दिश्य  संकल्पमकरोन्मनः । आत्मन्वी  स्यामिति  तथा
>>> साकूतः  सृष्टिकारणम् ।  >>
>>>
>>> <<  yadvA  virAjamuddishya  saMkalpamakaronmanaH | AtmanvI  syAmiti
>>> tathA  sAkUtaH  sRRiShTikAraNam |  >>
>>>
>>> Sri Bhagavatpada here interprets  मृत्यु (mRRityu)  as Hiranyagarbha
>>> and  states that just as kAryAs like pot etc are covered by kAraNa like
>>> clay (पिण्डावस्थया मृदा piNDAvasthayA mRRidA), this Creation was
>>> covered by Hiranyagarbha in the form of (samashti) Buddhi.
>>>
>>> This would give the impression that Creation was by Hiranyagarbha.
>>>
>>> This is explained by Swami Sureswaracharya in the vArtika
>>>
>>> BUBV 1-2-1-145
>>>
>>> <<  यद्वा  विराजमुद्दिश्य  संकल्पमकरोन्मनः । आत्मन्वी  स्यामिति  तथा
>>> साकूतः  सृष्टिकारणम् ।  >>
>>>
>>> <<  yadvA  virAjamuddishya  saMkalpamakaronmanaH | AtmanvI  syAmiti
>>> tathA  sAkUtaH  sRRiShTikAraNam |  >>
>>>
>>> Translation   <<  The Root Cause of this Creation, who had a thought
>>> (in mind) ; **let me be possessed of a self or a body **, created manas ,
>>> the one which collects impressions  in an orderly way,  with the intention
>>> of creating Viraj  >>.
>>>
>>> The word  मृत्यु (mRRityu) is interpreted as ** The Root Cause in the
>>> form of Hiranyagarbha **.
>>>
>>> Sri Anandagiri Acharya  explains  thus
>>>
>>> <<…………सृष्टेः स्वरूपं यस्येति सृष्टिकारण  इत्यर्थः। सृष्टेः  कारणं
>>> ब्रह्मास्य कारणं स्वरूपमिति  वा  सूत्रात्मा  यथोक्तः। >>
>>>
>>> <<    sRRiShTeH svarUpaM yasyeti sRRiShTikAraNa  ityarthaH | sRRiShTeH
>>> kAraNaM  brahmAsya kAraNaM svarUpamiti  vA  sUtrAtmA  yathoktaH | >>
>>>
>>> Note ::  सृष्टिकारणः  विग्रहमाह – सृष्टेरिति । (sRRiShTikAraNaH
>>> vigrahamAha - sRRiShTeriti  |).
>>>
>>> Just as मृत् (mRRit)  is the kAraNa for मृत्पिण्ड (mRRitpiNDa), अव्याकृत
>>> (avyAkRRita)  is the kAraNa for Hiranyagarbha himself. Hence there is
>>> consistency as between Bhashya and Vartika.
>>>
>>> I hope this addresses your concern. You may like to refer to this
>>> portion of the vArtika and a couple of slokas following and preceding this
>>> sloka for further clarity.
>>>
>>> I have based this on the kannada translation and notes of  BUBV by Sri
>>> Krishna Jois.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>