[Advaita-l] [advaitin] rAma-krishna-shiva-durga etc. are not same in shAstric vyavahAra!!!

[V Subrahmanian]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 10:34 AM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Subbu ji,
> I agree with everything you say except I would de-emphasise one aspect:
> "In that case the Trimurtis will be non-diff from this Prathama shariri
> who is in turn 'under' the Ishwara."
>
> I think that there is no spiritual benefit (and possible spiritual harm)
> in considering the trimUrti Shiva / Vishnu separate from the turIya Shiva /
> Vishnu (terms used in the sense that you do below) - especially if it is
> done with the purpose of reconciling durbala purANa pramANa-s. Doing so can
> get in the way of the upAsana of the turIya Shiva / Vishnu etc as Ishvara -
> leading to questions / confusions of whether such a worship is of Ishvara
> or of a jIva etc - which affects the stronger pramANa enjoining a worship
> of such forms.
>

Panchadashi:

2. *Entering the superior bodies like that of Vishnu, He became the deities*;
and remaining in the inferior bodies like that of men He worships the
deities.  Panchadashi 1

Here the Brahman/Ishwara that is the jagatkAraNam is stated to have entered
bodies like that of Vishnu that are created. The subject-object difference
is there.

उपासकस्तु सततं ध्यायन्नेव वसेदिति ।
*ध्यानेनैव कृतं तस्य ब्रह्मत्वं विष्णुतादिवत् ॥ * Panchadashi 9.116

116. On the other hand, a meditator should always engage himself in
meditation, for through meditation his feeling of identity with Brahman
arises, as a devotee has it by meditating on Vishnu.

117. The feeling of identity, which is the effect of meditation, ceases
when the practice is given up; but the true Brahmanhood does not vanish
even in the absence of knowledge.

>From the above it looks like one 'attains' Vishnuhood by meditation, which,
however, is not absolute; it ceases when the effect of dhyana ceases. But
not so with regard to Nirguna Brahman.

This I think can be mapped with the PrajApatitva/Hiranyagarbhatva that one
attains through meditation/jnanakarma samucchaya.

Here Vidyaranya seems to make a difference between the deity Vishnu and
Brahman. The rule 'tam yathAyathOpAsatE...

Turiya Vishnu/Shiva could very well be meditated upon by holding the
generally attributed sthiti/laya kartrutva as aupaadhika and not svAbhAvika
to that Vishnu/Shiva which is the ultimate JagatkAraNam saguNa vastu.

The idea of Turiya Shiva is apparently highlighted for the first time by
Sri Appayya Dikshitar, based on the shruti and purana vakyas, and this is
severely criticized by Madhwas like Vijayendra Tirtha, his contemporary. By
that they feared that the taratamya they hold between Shiva and Vishnu is
sought to be obliterated and hence the criticism.

regards
subbu


> Regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
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